The ULTIMATE debate

[Dark Carnival]

What's the solution for the situation in Israel/Palestine, if there is one..

[Gavin]

There is NO single 'world' issue which depresses me more than the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Its impossibly complicated and politcally sensitive but i just WISH, SOMEHOW it could be resolved to the satisfaction of both peoples.

If only. :moopy:

[Madison]

I'd start by creating a Palestinian state.

[PJL]

I'm sure the Palestinians (well at least the leadership) would love a Final Solution to the probken...

[Madison]

Whenever me and my brother were fighting over something instead of sharing, my mother would just say neither of us could have it.

Let's send a letter to everyone living there that they have one month to leave, and then destroy the whole region.

[PJL]

Whenever me and my brother were fighting over something instead of sharing, my mother would just say neither of us could have it.

Let's send a letter to everyone living there that they have one month to leave, and then destroy the whole region.

I'm sure Iran will arrange that once they have the nukes. They'll only nuke the Israeli bits, but all that radiation will make the West Bank and Gaza unhabitiable. An acceptable trade off to them.

[RaspberrySwirl]

Creating a Palestinian state in Gaza and the Westbank with Isreal having no control over it (and no settlers there). That should be easy to accomplish, but it's impossible as long as nobody confronts Israel.

[abnormal]

Two states with normal relations living next to each other would be a great solution. But the other nations around them need to step up their efforts - diplomatic relations to Israel, like Egypt and Jordan have, is a lovely start.

What about the millions of palestinian refugees throughout the Middle East? Where would they go? Back to the Palestine? Is this problem being considered at all?

[Gavin]

The solution is the easy part. Its reaching the solution in reality which is impossibly difficult.

[RaspberrySwirl]

Half of Jordan is exile Palestinians..I don't see how they all could go back.

There are lots of other problems too..the Golan region issue and Southern Lebanon.

[Sebastian Flyte]

What's the solution for the situation in Israel/Palestine, if there is one..

A damn hard one to find is the answer. There is too much hatred & history between the two sides. The only solution that I could imagine is something like the Northern Ireland peace process where both sides engage in co-operation and agree to have a Palestinian state in return for the Arab world recognising Israel's right to exist.

[Dark Carnival]

Back to the Palestine?

Yes, please! We're not going to have them here forever we already have our own problems..

[abnormal]

Yes, please! We're not going to have them here forever we already have our own problems..
Does the King actually want 'em to leave? Would the new Palestine Authority be welcoming MILLIONS of poor people back? It's quite a difficult situation...

[Commotion]

The 2 state solution is no longer workable as through the settlement building Israel has effectively prevented the creation of an independent, operational Palestinian state. Hence the only way to prevent eternal war is the 1 state solution where each person in the region gets 1 vote and if this means the end of the Jewish mandate in Israel then that is what will eventually happen. Unless of course the world starts treating Israel like Apartheid era South Africa and starts major sustained boycotts of Israeli goods and services until they return tehe West Bank;Gaza and East Jerusalem to its Palestinian owners.

[Commotion]

Although to be honest seeing as the environment is meant to wipe out the world's population within a few hundred years it's probably all a waste of time.

[Agnetha]

I'm never on to say "Just nuke 'em all" except when it comes to the French, but in this case it would be worth every penny.

[Dark Carnival]

Does the King actually want 'em to leave? Would the new Palestine Authority be welcoming MILLIONS of poor people back? It's quite a difficult situation...
I'm talking about Lebanon, and it's not about whether they're willing to welcome them or not coz that's what they're supposed to do.

[abnormal]

I'm talking about Lebanon, and it's not about whether they're willing to welcome them or not coz that's what they're supposed to do.
Sorry, I though you were from Jordan. Lebanon is facing BIG problems these days, I guess millions of refugees don't help at all.

[Tal]

No way those refugees are coming back to Israel! If they want to come back to the West Bank they could, but why would someone want that is beyond me.
On the whole, I'd say that the nuclear armament of Iran is rapidly becoming more dangerous to stability in the middle east than the Palestinian problem.

[Tal]

Unless of course the world starts treating Israel like Apartheid era South Africa and starts major sustained boycotts of Israeli goods and services until they return tehe West Bank;Gaza and East Jerusalem to its Palestinian owners.
There is nothing that annoys me more than the comparison between Israel and South Africa during the Apartheid regime. The two situations are nothing alike and this kind of comparison only makes the debate superficial.

[Madison]

Is Iran in the range of Israel's airforce?

[Tal]

Half of Jordan is exile Palestinians..I don't see how they all could go back.

There are lots of other problems too..the Golan region issue and Southern Lebanon.
In Jordan I think it's only a matter of time until the king will be thrown and then maybe the new state of Palestine will merge with Jordan, just like before 1967.
The Golan region will probably go back to Syria as soon as Assad would be willing to negotiate.
The only solution to Southern Lebanon is that the weak and frightened Lebanese army would grow some balls and confronts Hizbulla. Israel is no longer a player.

[Tal]

Is Iran in the range of Israel's airforce?
Of course... I assume that if no one else does the job in the next couple of years, then just like in Iraq, Israel would have to do it by itself.

[Commotion]

There is nothing that annoys me more than the comparison between Israel and South Africa during the Apartheid regime. The two situations are nothing alike and this kind of comparison only makes the debate superficial.

I think there are huge similarities. The West Bank is occupied by Israel and there are about 250,000 Jewish settlers living on settlements there among a population of 2.3 million Palestinians. There is a massive army presence which denies Palestinians access to their work; hospitals; education or families through the use of checkpoints; walls etc. This is to make sure the illegal settlements eg Ariel; Maaleh Adumin etc are allowed to live their lives as normaly while utterly disrupting the lives of every single Palestinian. That is known as collective punishment. These restrictions do not apply to the settlers. Palestinians have no freedom of movement. Israelis do. It may not be an exact replica of Apartheid era South Africa but it has a strong resemblance. In Apartheid South Africa the regime was also to favour and protect the minority immigrants while totally disregarding the native population.

Israel claims the Apartheid regime is for security but if the settlements were not there and the settlers moved back to Israel then this would be an issue. Israel made a massive mistake in creating the Occupation in 1967 and the government is too cowardly to deal with the settlers who in my opinion are as wicked as any Islamic Jihad member.

[Tigerclaw]

Of course... I assume that if no one else does the job in the next couple of years, then just like in Iraq, Israel would have to do it by itself.
Not going to happen. They'd have to fly over Iraq, whose government is fragile enough as it is, it'd be suicidal for them to let that happen. And I doubt even the US would approve, having the Israelis start preemptive bombings again would make everything a lot worse...

[Tal]

While I agree that some features of the Israeli occupation may resemble some of the features of the Apartheid regime, the motivation for them is completely different, and that what makes all the difference. The conflict between Israel and the Plaestinians is not racial, but territorial.
Moreover, the restriction of movement for Palestinians in the west bank is done not only to protect the lives of the Israeli settlers in the west bank, but to protect the lives of all Israelies, as the biggest terror acts (the suicide bombings) are usually done inside Israel.
And while I agree that Israel had comitted the "original sin", the Palestinians bear at least some of the responsibility to their predicament. No one forced them to start a murderous terror campaign against Israel after the Camp David talks failed in 2000. They took a stratigic decision and are paying its price with their human rights. I don't recall suicide bombers blowing themselves off in the streets of Johanesboutrg...

[Emma]

there will never be a solution whilst east jerusalem contains pivotal religious sites for both muslims and jews.

never, never, never.

[Agnetha]

NUKE JERUSALEM

[Madison]

there will never be a solution whilst east jerusalem contains pivotal religious sites for both muslims and jews.

never, never, never.
Let's blow them all up.

The sites, not the muslims and jews.

[Emma]

well if the western wall, the temple mount (inc the dome of the rock and the al-aqsa mosque), and the church of the holy sepulchre were all nuked then things would be extremely different (obviosuly).

[Madison]

Good different.

[Tal]

well if the western wall, the temple mount (inc the dome of the rock and the al-aqsa mosque), and the church of the holy sepulchre were all nuked then things would be extremely different (obviosuly).
They won't have anywhere to take Israeli children for school trips anymore :(

[Emma]

i've been on a school trip to all those places too.

[Jimmy]

I'm voting for the blowing up option. The silly tossers just can't be trusted to live together like normal people. I think giving them a months notice is a nice idea, as long as they don't all come to our rainy haven..

[Dark Carnival]

there will never be a solution whilst east jerusalem contains pivotal religious sites for both muslims and jews.

never, never, never.
That's why I think the whole of Jerusalem should be turned into international territory or into something à la Vatican. It means so much to so many people and puting it under the control of one nation isn't going to work.

[Emma]

That's why I think the whole of Jerusalem should be turned into international territory or into something à la Vatican. It means so much to so many people and puting it under the control of one nation isn't going to work.

its a very sensible solution.

[Jimmy]

That's why I think the whole of Jerusalem should be turned into international territory or into something à la Vatican. It means so much to so many people and puting it under the control of one nation isn't going to work.

I think it's a brilliant idea too, but I'm pretty sure that Israel would not allow it.

[Tal]

I don;t think Jerusalem is that much of a problem. The status of the holy places today is that all the Muslim bulidings are under the "Waqf" control, which means they have autonomy from Israel, and I don't see why this should change. I'm sure it can be sorted some way or another.
The real issues are the occupation, the terror, and the refugees.

[Tigerclaw]

I don;t think Jerusalem is that much of a problem. The status of the holy places today is that all the Muslim bulidings are under the "Waqf" control, which means they have autonomy from Israel, and I don't see why this should change. I'm sure it can be sorted some way or another.
The real issues are the occupation, the terror, and the refugees.
Access is the major issue I would imagine? You can control the Holy Site all you want, but if access to it can be cut off on a whim by the state that surrounds it, then it creates anxiety.


That's what happened with Berlin in 1949, and with Jerusalem over the centuries, which was the major factor in the Crusades...


But it's not an easy issue, which is understandable. Both sides want control, and it would hurt either to make concessions.

[cwej]

Can someone explain to me about it.. .cos I've never really understood it.