A thread about class

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by big ron, Aug 27, 2020.

?

I consider myself

  1. Working Class

    34.4%
  2. Middle Class

    59.4%
  3. Upper Class

    3.1%
  4. Other

    3.1%
  1. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    I'm curious about how people feel about class. I always felt class was eroding when I was youner, however recently I've become more acquainted with people who have come from privileged backgrounds and I see the opportunities afforded to them. I also think Brexit and the rise of the right wing has made me more aware of how class is exploited.

    I still consider myself working class, but I certainly don't live a working class life. In fact, I'm very lucky in that I live in a nice house, can afford a lot of luxuries and while money isn't something I can forget about and I've had lean spells, I know I'm better off than a lot of people in this country.

    I grew up in a council house, we didn't have a phone until we moved around my 6th birthday, didn't have a car for years. My Dad was a labourer and many of his brothers still worked on sites up until very recently. I feel really strongly about working class values, many of them rooted in socialism, but I'm conflicted about how I carry them on when I live a very middle class life without being a hypocrite or fetishising people and communities worse off than me.

    Do you think about your class? Do you think it really matters now?
     
  2. Indie

    Indie Great Tits

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    I also grew up in a council house with my working class parents. My wider family mostly still lives in council flats, breeds like rabbits and some of them rarely work.

    I grew up taking week holidays in local caravan parks and didn't have a whole lot of things, although my parents were relatively generous to me.

    Not only was I the first of my family to go to university, 20 years later I'm still the only one to have gone.

    But. I can't deny I'm effectively middle class today in many ways. I'm a professional on a good salary, I take nice holidays and I have middle class pursuits. I made my own jam for fucks sake.
     
  3. Ellie

    Ellie Super talented triple threat

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    I’m not even sure how to define it. I grew up in a very middle class household, but I went to a state school and a lot of my classmates and friends lived in council houses and were very much working class where any differences weren’t really an issue to us at least.

    We were never that cash rich and my parents haven’t been able to help me out financially, although my Dad very much still lives his middle class lifestyle with wine tastings, dinner parties and multiple holidays per year etc. I’m coming up to 40 and still in rented accommodation with no prospect of buying a property any time soon, so am I working class? On a daily basis it feels like it, but when I visit back home the privilege I had is very apparent.
     
  4. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    We grew up on a council estate, although my parents bought their house when they first got married. I very definitely had a working class upbringing. My dad was a self employed builder/handyman in his early life, then about 10 years collecting the bins, and then a caretaker of a council block until he died. My mum worked part time in retail or care homes at various times to make up the shortfall in raising three children.

    My brother and sister would both identify as working class without question - she lives in a council house, and my brother lives in one he bought when the Tories sold them off in the 90s.

    I remember being very conscious of my class after moving from primary school (which was completely full of working class kids) to secondary school, which also attracted kids from more middle class areas - and that's the kids I was naturally drawn to and became friends with. I suspect the whole gay thing and sense of 'otherness' played into it and questioning my background.

    I feel kind of CLASS FLUID now, I guess. My roots totally working class, but my life definitely more middle class. As for what I actually AM, I don’t know, really. And I don't really care too much, as much as i continue to find it fascinating.
     
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  5. octophone

    octophone O = 0

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    I've never felt more working class than I do now. This is partly due to having been considered expendable by the government and my employer during this pandemic and therefore having to go in and out of work every day.

    My mum was a nurse and later a social worker. My dad was in the building trade, chartered surveyor. They both grew up in council houses but bought after they married and continued to do so - my dad has always owned his home in his adult life. The upbringing was aspirational - we were all sent to private school and all put under a lot of exam pressure and when I wanted to study English at university, I was told this wasn't good enough and I could achieve a lot more. What I actually wanted wasn't really a consideration. This was largely driven by my mum and the school were certainly more than complicit; if anything, they did a lot to create expectations that it wasn't in my personal interest to fulfil. The result of that if that I felt adrift from any kind of cultural roots - I fitted nowhere; rejected locally cos I didn't go to the local school and was therefore a snob but also nowhere near affluent enough to fit in there. Now I'm comfortably working class. The middle class just weren't my people - middle class is twitchy curtains, Mumsnet, Tory councillor, "why should my taxes pay for xxxxx?". Middle class isn't a real thing and people are beginning to twig that the whole notion of a middle class is false - a lie perpetuated by the upper class to motivate the working class. In the last 10 years, that sticking plaster has been firmly ripped away and the structure is, once again, inherited wealth and plebs.

    tl;dr - I had the opportunity to go full middle class - I went to a decent school, went to Glasgow Uni, studied law...but good grief, what a bunch of cunts.
     
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  6. ZenGiraffe

    ZenGiraffe Anum Rapax

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    I don't think there is necessarily a direct relationship between income and class, there are so many other variables that go into it. For example, most plumbers would consider themselves working class, whereas office workers would be more likely to consider themselves middle class, yet the plumber will often be earning much more. So your class is as much a reflection of how you feel about yourself, as well as others perceive you.

    My family, especially on my dads side, are undeniably middle class, and that had a huge influence on the way I was brought up, despite the comparatively modest income that my parents had. My parents had unquestioning support for me to do whatever I wanted when I got out of school, whereas my friends parents would put more emphasis on getting a job over following a dream or a passion. This is despite, from what I could tell, us all being of a similar financial status.

    And now, with a post-graduate degree, a cushy office job and hopefully property ownership in the next year, before I am 30 (just) and with help from the bank of mum and dad, I feel I am inescapably middle-class.

    I don't think it is at the forefront of many people's minds but I do think it has a subtle background effect, which is becoming less subtle post-brexit.
     
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  7. Ellie

    Ellie Super talented triple threat

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    Class fluid is a good way to put it. My mother is also from a working class background, coming in to the UK as a child immigrant and her father was a bus driver, which is vastly different from my dad’s side. Then again my paternal grandfather worked in the oil industry where they once lived in Iran and had servants, but he was also once a hotel doorman and married into a family of school teachers, so what was he? It’s very confusing.
     
  8. ButterTart

    ButterTart Drop dead cynical

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    I’ve said working class. I used to have delusions of being middle class when I was younger, but an adulthood riddled with unemployment and homelessness soon put paid to that.
     
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  9. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    I grew up in an upper middle class home in Iraq (even though Iraq wasn’t as segregated as third world countries can be).

    Moving to Sweden as immigrants brought us down to the bottom of the chain. We were however lucky to live in a big house in a great area, so I’ve never had council estate experience. I guess I identify myself as middle class, considering the lifestyle I live and the education and job I have, but I don’t think of class and happy to live in a country where it isn’t as noticable as elsewhere (even it it’s far more visible than it used to be).
     
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  10. Barnacle

    Barnacle Climb on through my window.

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    I don't know. My parents are both from very working class backgrounds, and are very proud of it, but have been home owners since before I was born and now we have a second (very small and up for sale) house in the Republic. The area our regular house is in is nice and friendly but hardly affluent. Dad is a teacher and mum was civil service before going on long maternity and becoming a classroom assistant. But I think they'd get annoyed at being referred to as middle class.

    And as a 27 year old, I don't know if I can define myself based on my parents at this point, even though I've just moved in with them again. I guess the concept of class is partly silly in itself, although obviously socio-economic background matters and needs to be taken into consideration.
     
  11. Soldi

    Soldi Candide Crush

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    I SUPPOSE I fit into both middle and working class. I certainly grew up in a middle class household, but also went to a state school and the village we live in is certainly in a working class area. But then going to uni and being a LOT more financially independent I’ve obviously been more restricted (not that I was handed everything on a plate at home) and have become a lot more reliant on part time jobs to help keep everything going smoothly. I’ve also started the long road of renting and will be moving into a rather deprived area of the city on the weekend.

    Although I suppose the fact that I’m at university in the first place could mean I’m still seen as 100% middle class.
     
  12. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    I agree that class is not mainly a question of money. It depends on many other factors like profession, education etc.
     
  13. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    My parents certainly came from working class backgrounds and had working class careers. My Dad drove taxis and my mum was a hairdresser who later re-trained as a florist. I went to a state school. I remember actively being discouraged from wanting to go to the local private school as my parents couldn't afford it, which I'm very pleased about now because God knows what that would have turned me into.

    On the other hand my parents owned our house - which is a fairly standard semi detached in the suburbs of Liverpool - and I never felt that we were 'poor'. I went to University, but I'm unsure my parents could have afforded to send me today without me or them being put into massive amounts of debt - they fell into the income category where under the Blair government I had my tuition fees paid by the government.

    So yeah, I guess comfortable working class is probably where it lands. I now work for a bank and earn a decent salary so I guess that would push me closer to middle class, but on the other hand I live in a rented flat and spend all my money at the pub, so maybe I've actually gone backwards. :D
     
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  14. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Oh class fluid is a great term to describe me. My mums family was British working class. My Dads Polish family were pretty well off, despite being refugees. I grew up living the ultimate middle class existence and have since succeeded in descending down into the working classes, through circumstances and choices. That said I have many attributes of a middle class life.

    I don't enjoy my status one bit. I often feel trapped, being neither poor enough or rich enough for anyone to care. I am utterly aspirational, but far too aware of my boundaries and limitations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  15. Rita

    Rita User

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    My mum and dad owned a pub which we lived above growing up, but we never really had a lot of money but were by no means poor. These days I am lucky enough to live a very privileged life, and although I do thoroughly enjoy the nicer things in life it by no means has ever went to my head, and I am still the same girl I always was.
     
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  16. Lucille

    Lucille Sniffing in the VIP area

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    My family were both born into very working class families, my mum’s side especially was desperately poor. By the time I was born they were relatively wealthy (For Yorkshire, certainly not millionaires) They had their own business, we had stables, 2 horses, a boat, new cars every year. However they had a haulage and removals business that went kaput in the nineties and we went bankrupt and moved to a very rough council estate. We eventually changed council houses and my parents did right to buy, and after driving trucks my dad worked himself up to a reasonable management position, which set themselves up for a fairly comfortable life, although never quite reaching the lifestyle of their early thirties which must’ve been weird.

    They were able to support me financially through university and internships, although moving to London I was aware of how much more difficult things were for me than people I knew who had professional parents in London, who could either live with their parents rent free or use their contacts for work.

    Living in London I certainly don’t feel middle class, my salary probably falls around the 50th percentile, but I rent, have no real hope of buying, and I have zero savings. That being said I certainly don’t struggle financially, but London kind of distorts your self worth. People who me and my friends describe as Middle Class here are the types of people on 80-100k a year, who are in reality in the top 10% of earners, but I feel that’s the kind of salary needed for a comfortable lifestyle down here, and I do get a bit down that I’m in my 30s and my salary isn’t close to that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  17. wurst

    wurst User

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    This topic is so fascinating. I'm obsessed with the notion of the British class system and how it constantly evolves and divides.

    Like others in this topic, I don't really identify with the traditional class structures.
    My Dad was brought up very poor and working class, but through a variety of DODGY DEALINGS now lives a sort of very middle class lifestyle, but is still quite socially working class, but can also flirt with groups of people that are quite wealthy.

    Personally I have a pretty decent job, have bought my own flat through working REALLY FUCKING HARD (and not a penny of it was from anybody else) and most of my friends are absolutely middle class, with a couple in particular being from astronomically wealthy parents - but I always feel INCREDIBLY POOR and from a an impoverished background in comparison to them (not that it's actually an issue in reality).

    Grayson Perry did a really good doc for Channel 4 about the class system, that I assume still stands up today (haven't watched it in years). He suggested the traditional class system has now fragmented into a spectrum where there are at least 6 defined sections - one of these was the cultural middle class, who value absorbing art, books, films and bettering yourself as being more important than amassing extreme wealth, and are a little outside of the more regular class groups. That was certainly the class group I personally most identified with, and I imagine it would be similar for a lot of gay men.
     
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  18. wurst

    wurst User

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    Sorry to be clear - Grayson Perry called it the Cultural Middle Class, not something I've coined myself. And absolutely you can value absorbing art, books, films and bettering yourself no matter where you feel you land on the class system.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  19. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    I can hear the shackles of privilege being shaken to death in this thread! :D

    MY TURN

    My mother had a piss poor childhood and was sent to live with relatives in Ireland from a very young age. It was all very sad and traumatic for various reasons. She married my father at 18 and had my brother at 20. My father was a policeman and not a very nice man. He only gave her a tiny allowance so she worked as a cleaner when I was little. She was very successful and ended up cleaning big houses for rich people. I remember going with her to these amazing houses before I started school. He was an abusive alcoholic who spent all the money on booze and they split up when I was 9, so it was single parent upbringing from then on.

    My mother worked in a factory for years and often did cleaning jobs at weekends when my brother and I were at primary school. As we got older, she got a job at an insurance company and gradually worked her way up to become a financial advisor. She had to work extremely hard and incredibly long hours, and she really scrimped and saved all those years because my dad barely gave her a penny. I remember her only being able to afford to put £2 of petrol in the (very shitty old) car and the electricity metre running out because we couldn’t afford to top it up with pound coins, etc. She never borrowed or wasted money and we had a very make-do-and-mend upbringing, which was loving and stable and happy.

    All pretty working class so far? /WOE IS ME.

    My brother and I both went to the state comprehensives and he got in with the wrong crowd and ended up in prison in his late teens. I, on the other hand, got a very lucky break in my second year at secondary school when a teacher told my mum I was grammar school material and helped her enter me for an occasional vacancy entrance test. This was a state grammar school, not fee-paying. I got the place and I truly believe it changed my life. I got good results and ended up going to Cambridge University, from which point everybody instantly decides I am middle class. I was the first person in my family to be educated beyond 16, let alone go the uni. I always wanted to be a teacher and have been doing it for 15 years now, working in top private schools along the way in senior leadership roles and commanding what I consider to be a high salary. I’m currently Deputy Headteacher at a state special school.

    My husband has a similar background - very working class family, very intelligent, worked hard at school, first to go to uni, got to Cambridge through an assisted placed scheme for povvos, worked his way up to senior leadership, etc. Between us we earn good money and bought our first 1-bed flat in London aged 24. Ten years later we sold up and moved to Devon to a 4-bed detached house and we’re living the dream with nice cars and a comfortable life. He has quite a big chip on his shoulder about class and still considers himself working class, although I think this is because his family make him feel guilty about being successful. JEALOUS.

    My MOTHER, by the way, was made redundant after years with the same insurance company, got a good pay out and managed to set up her own business as an independent financial advisor. She owns her own house - the same modest little terrace we moved into after the divorce, which she has gradually extended and improved over the years as funds allowed. She specialises in wealth management and pension funds and her business is so successful, she’s raking it in, mortgage-free, drives a Jaguar (this was her dream when I was a child), employs a PA and is generally a BOSS BITCH. Gosh now I think of it what a fucking self-made ICON. Not bad for a cleaner. She is a lunatic though, but you can kind of understand why.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  20. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

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    Defining your class requires looking back at your multi-generational history, I suppose.

    My maternal grandparents seem to have been rather upper-middle class in pre-WWII Poland, but arrived in the UK in late 40s with absolutely nothing, except emotional damage. Neither were very motivated, and found themselves at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. My grandfather worked as a security guard, and my grandmother pushed out 5 kids.

    My paternal grandparents came from a dirt-poor part of South-Western Ireland, and migrated to the UK for work.

    When I was born, my mum was a primary school teacher and my dad was a very-mid-level civil servant. We lived in a three-bed terrace in Luton. Both my parents had middle-class passions (classical music and literature for my Dad, cooking and languages for my Mum), without the financial firepower to match. As I got older, both got promoted, and finished their careers with decent middle-class incomes. They left Luton for smaller village, eventually.

    I went to the local Catholic comprehensive, where I suppose I was on the upper-income level of the spectrum. I was always embarrassed that my parents seemed a bit too "posh" for my schoolmates.

    Cut to going to university, and for the first time in my life, being surrounded by upper-middle and upper class Brits with generational money, fancy cars, private educations. Suddenly, I was ashamed of the complete opposite - that my parents were not "posh" enough.

    Which leads me to the conclusion that the British construct of class is a terrible, demoralising, and shame-inducing thing.

    I left the UK eight years ago, and I feel I get to live a life slightly "external" to class in Paris, even though this is also an extremely class-oriented society. However, being "foreign" (at least, white, Western-European foreign) affords you some kind of pass. A faux-pas is attributed to my foreignness, rather than my class or education.

    These days, I live a very bourgeois life, at least in terms of where I live, what I eat, and how I travel. But my bf is also from a poor background (much poorer than me - he grew up the last days of the USSR and the subsequent economic destruction of the 90s). I feel this marks both of us, and probably something that unites us somewhat.
     
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  21. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    P.S. I may have a library, a dressing room and a music room, but I do NOT vote Conservative, so you can leave that little assumption behind. That is the ONE thing I hate. Otherwise I’m happy to accept that I’m quite snobby.
     
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  22. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

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    Absolutely. British people I work with assume I was privately educated. I feel like Whitney Houston in a permanent Diane Sawyer interview.
     
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  23. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    I think there a parallels with my Cambridge sister @Loufoque although maybe I was lucky to go to a less stuffy, more progressive college? My husband’s university experience was far more mired by his working class inferiority complex.
     
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  24. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    Interesting that you (and he) felt you weren’t rich or middle class enough at Cambridge. I always felt like EVERYONE was so desperate to shake off the shackles of privilege and prove how COMMON they were! :D
     
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  25. wurst

    wurst User

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    I'm also a big proponent that WHO YOU KNOW is just as important as education, depending on what job you want to do. I never finished uni and spent all my twenties getting smashed at parties where I subsequently met a bunch of people who later helped me secure opportunities and interviews later in my life :D Social-nepotism is very real IMO...well that and my BOUNDLESS CHARISMA and ability of being very good at interviews/selling myself.
     
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  26. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

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    My college was hell. Full of rugger-buggers and English Roses. I fucking HATED university. I am grateful for the "passport" it gave me: saying you went to Cambridge truly does open doors. But I would NEVER EVER want to repeat the experience.
     
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  27. Jark

    Jark no gem too sultry

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    @Whatevar's mother sounds absolutely fabulous. What a role model.

    I don't know how to define my societal class status, like others in this thread, and would be interested to hear more about the six groupings as defined by Grayson Perry in the doc @wurst - is there any more about this online? I suppose I could just google it myself.

    My mum and dad both came from really working class backgrounds, my mum in particular - she grew up in rural Lancashire, which was definitely 99.8% working class in the '60s. My dad was probably a bit better off as he went to an all-boys grammar school somewhere in the Midlands but it was not private. I spent my entire childhood living in the same house in a cul-de-sac in a quiet, largely middle-class village - I think we were probably the least well-off family on that street. Certainly the neighbours all upgraded to new cars often enough and we never did - they went abroad often on holiday, we never did. It's not that we were BROKE per se - my mum worked really hard in low-paid social care jobs and my dad had a somewhat better-paying job in I.T., but there was a definite sense that a lot of the people around me had more money than we did, all of my friends in fact as a kid.

    Now that I am approaching 30 and living in another country, I find it particularly hard to define my "class" - I suppose you'd have to say middle-class, because I work in the creative marketing sector and live in a nice apartment in a hipstery neighbourhood of Amsterdam. But I rent, own no property, have absolutely zero savings and feel that very acutely right now, being unemployed for a couple of months, and having no money to fall back on as a safety net doesn't FEEL middle class. There must be more nuanced categories to use for this purpose. But then, with the amount I spend on clothes in an average month, any real working class person would SCOFF at the idea that I am one of them :D so...
     
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  28. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

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    Not in my experience. They were all thrilled with themselves, and the social climbers couldn't wait to join them.

    There's a part of me that leans in somewhat heavily into a degree of "chavviness" these days in the way I dress. But I think it's also some way of claiming my British identity in Paris, amongst the veritable SEA of plain white T-shirts, faded jeans and tennis shoes that every Parisian bottom (@Dark Carnival) wears.
     
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  29. Ellie

    Ellie Super talented triple threat

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    My aunt on my dad’s side is actually semi upper class. Despite being a retired teacher, I can’t quite work out how she fell on her feet. Had 3 marriages, one to a Croatian in the 80s who was really dodgy and took us for loads of money (my dad pretty much paid for her divorce by taking out a massive mortgage, in exchange for her stake in our house which was inherited by their parents), but her third marriage was into proper old money and now she’s very much lady of the manor. But even before that she managed to sell her long time family home to the National Trust as it was historically significant, then bought a swish London town house across the road from Joanna Lumley, where my cousin lived rent free as she was earning less than minimum wage, but still lived like a socialite. Apart from the oddball second marriage, I’ve never known anyone so lucky.
     
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  30. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    Oh bbz it makes me so sad that we never met. I even had a bf at your college I think - Jesus? He was VERY working class!
     
  31. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

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    Downing. Now I think about it, I'm quite fascinated about what kind of damage the feelings of inadequacy about both my class and my sexuality had on me while I was there. I probably didn't get over it for a number of years. I'm not sure I could have found a more arch-Tory bed of toxic masculinity to subject myself to if I had tried.
     
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  32. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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    I've also always found it very interesting - how and when do you officially move from one class to another?

    My mum's family were very much working class. My grandparents spent their lives working as servants to various rich cunts - before they retired (to a council retirement flat) we used to visit the little house they lived in in the grounds of a stately home, where my grandpa was the gardener and my grandma was the housekeeper. I've been doing a lot of family history research recently and it was like this forever. I'm so bored of seeing "AG LAB" on censuses I've decided to start pretending they all worked for @Ag's meth lab.

    My dad's family on the other hand were more comfortable middle class.

    I'd say we were lower middle class growing up - we didn't have much spare money and holidays were always cottages in this country with the VERY occasional BUTLINS. I went to private school but on a 100% scholarship. Hated it of course because I got picked on for being a POVVO.

    Obviously now I am doing well and wouldn't pretend to be anything other than middle class. I try to remember my white hetero privilege and the probable additional privilege I have from having gone to my vile school... I suppose being labelled SAD and UNCOOL from the start meant I never fell in with the wrong crowd and allowed me to instead focus on recognising what I was good at and thinking about what I wanted to do next.
     
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  33. wurst

    wurst User

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    I've found the Middle Class episode on Daily Motion, I'm sure the others will be online somewhere, and are probably on All4



    I may REWATCH myself following this thread :D I haven't watched in years however, so not entirely sure if it has dated well or not. If it ends up being some sort of CLASSIST HORROR SHOW then pls don't shoot me :D
     
  34. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I met the friends of my last quite rich boyfriend. There was no connect whatsoever. That was a revelation in terms of knowing my place.
     
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  35. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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    Also stanning @Whatevar's mum right now :disco:

    Do you still speak to your dad? (if he's still alive)
     
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  36. Logic?

    Logic? User

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    Some of the stories in here are so wonderful. :disco: It is really interesting to read everyones background.

    I think class in the UK is such a massive massive problem. In my experience of being in this country it certainly puts people in their place and working class is very much different to LOWER working class but not enough is put on that distinction. The kind of people who fall under the Low Income High Costs indicator/fuel poverty bracket who work in full time jobs yet all of their money goes on energy bills etc and just keeping a roof over their head. I work with people in this position and it is just so sad to see. People who work 40+ hour weeks but can afford no luxury or pleasures in life.

    I was born in Colombia where my parents were around the guerrilla troubles there which had been going on for years but got a lot worse in the late 80's and 90's. I'm the youngest of my siblings and thankfully by the time I was born my parents had moved to an area that was a lot safer but still very poor. They have always kind of shielded (?) me from those stories and I don't remember an awful lot because by the time I was 3/4 we had moved to Spain where my parents managed to set up a successful business and eventually got education. Money never changed them though so I guess even though they'd moved up in the class ranks it didn't really change much. I've always kind of felt my family have this attitude towards me that I'm the lucky one who didn't really experience the true hardship they did. Which of course is good, but its always made me feel like a little bit of an outsider and not wholey connected to the place I was born.

    I came to the UK to go to university and still here now. The disparity (?) between the classes here is the WORST of any country I've ever lived in and people speak about it a lot more.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  37. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    Omg poor you! I knew two gay lawyers there. Both dickheads tbh.

    Were you not out? :o
     
  38. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    :D He’s dead to me!

    No I stopped seeing him when I was 14 after my brother went to prison and he did nothing to help, leaving my mother to deal with everything. I only saw him at weekends up to then anyway, almost ALL of which were spent in pubs and, let’s be honest, the relationship was never quite the same after going to the police station with my mother in the middle of the night because he’d hit her again. “You don’t have any bruises” was their helpful response. He was a total bigot also so not really interested in having me for a son!

    The old bastard retired to Portugal about 10 years ago. Unbelievably my brother still has contact but even that’s faded over the years.

    I did see him again at his mum’s 90th birthday party after about 15 years. It was hugely empowering for me because I felt very confident in who I was, aged 30, with my husband and all of the family at my side, while he was very awkward, got drunk and disgraced himself as usual. I actually felt sorry for him.

    My mother is undeniably fabulous despite her own issues with drink, depression and poor boyfriend choices over the years. She’s much more settled now, has a lovely husband and turns 60 next year! Hoping she’ll retire and sell her business for megabucks. She deserves a rest.
     
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  39. Whatevar

    Whatevar WHAT!

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    Education really is the key to social climbing, it seems from this thread.
     
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  40. Indie

    Indie Great Tits

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    Like others, I do find it a fascinating topic.

    I do often find that people look to downgrade their class and privilege. People who are extremely comfortable and come from a reasonable background saying they feel affiliated with working class when from a personal view it seems ridiculous. I've a friend who in the next ten years stands to inherit £1m worth of commercial property but classifies himself as from a poor background.

    My entire family tree is pointless to research because it's pretty much all jobless folk in high rise council tower blocks in Leeds. :D
     
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