Alternative Vote Campaign & May 5th Elections Aftermath

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Feb 15, 2011.

?

AV you got it?

  1. Yes

    72.5%
  2. No

    17.5%
  3. I haven't made up my mind

    10.0%
  1. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

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    The Lib Dems are starting to look like they're going to be completely wiped in York. Word is they've lost seats in all of their safest wards, to Labour mainly, but also conservative and green.
     
  2. delirium

    delirium TOODLES FUCKFACE

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    I think I might agree (sort of!) but surely that means that the rise in tuition fees is all the more galling? I mean, if half as many people went to University then tuition fees wouldn't be needed at all?!
     
  3. delirium

    delirium TOODLES FUCKFACE

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    Completely. The turning point for me was Nick Clegg saying that people had no right to bash on the Lib Dems because they aren't an alternative to left-wing voters disillusioned with Labour. OF COURSE THEY ARE!

    Him saying they aren't really signaled to me that he sees himself much more centre, maybe even centre/right than I previously thought.
     
  4. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

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    yes. Indeed. I mean, look what's happened. People have deserted the Lib Dems and gone to Labour. Quelle Surprise!
     
  5. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

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    BBC sez: The Green Party is now the largest party in Brighton, with 23 seats. It's still five seats short of a majority, but the city that chose Caroline Lucas as the UK's first green MP last year has cemented its support for her party at local level.
     
  6. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

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    CON HOLD here as expected. Right I'm MOVING TO BRIGHTON OR SCOTLAND
     
  7. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

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    Exactly! I like to think i'm generally clever enough to have done a science-y degree but unfortunately it would have BORED ME TO TEARS. So I do Social Policy and hope that perhaps there will be a job opening for a "NON-CUNT WOMAN PM" in the near future. I am extremely interested in politics though... I mean, I did end up completely NERDING OUT and staying up until 6am, completely flummoxed by the Scottish results.

    That is one thing about Scotland, if avoiding Tories is your game then you're PRETTY SAFE up here.


    I'm astounded that some Lib Dems are still denying that Nick Clegg hate is why they've been completely obliterated. Of course that's why! There's been loads of decent Lib Dem politicians been kicked out JUST BECAUSE because of party association.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  8. delirium

    delirium TOODLES FUCKFACE

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    Nick Clegg needs to give up any crazy right-wing ideals he may or may not have and just do his job properly as someone LEFT LEFT LEFT
     
  9. delirium

    delirium TOODLES FUCKFACE

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    Coming back to the University issue... I wouldn't be so bothered about the tuition fee rise* if there was a real pathway into work for non-university school leavers. The fact the government has risen tuition to RIDICULOUS levels and not changed a single thing about how school leavers get into work is maddening.

    *this is a lie
     
  10. Julie Andrews

    Julie Andrews THE HILLS ARE ALIVE

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    SURPRISING INCREASE in the number of LABOUR COUNCILLORS in CHESHIRE WEST AND CHESTER

    *agog*
     
  11. Broomhelga

    Broomhelga User

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    Interesting. Where I was in Cheshire East the boundaries commission had chosen to alter the seats from the last elections. Whereas previously we had 3 member wards who quite often elected 3 of the same party they decided on a mix or 1, 2 or 3 member wards to try and provide more of a mix. Maybe this is why is Labour are doing better in Cheshire West.
     
  12. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    I've never heard of Cheshire East. Is it new?
     
  13. Julie Andrews

    Julie Andrews THE HILLS ARE ALIVE

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    Yes, the ward I'm in was split from a three-member ward (Overleigh) covering a mixed area into a two-member ward containing more affluent areas (Handbridge Park) and a single-member ward containing the council estate (Lache), so we'll have gone from 3 Con to 2 Con/1 Lab. Does seem a bit more representative. But I didn't think it had happened to that many wards.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  14. Broomhelga

    Broomhelga User

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    Fairly new. They merged the borough councils in about 2007 I think. Labour want to switch it back because they have no chance of getting any control over the region as a whole whereas they often did in Crewe and Nantwich.
     
  15. Broomhelga

    Broomhelga User

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    They should have just stuck with 1 member wards, seems a lot fairer to me.
     
  16. Julie Andrews

    Julie Andrews THE HILLS ARE ALIVE

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    Old council Con 55 Lab 13 LD 4
    New council Con 41 Lab 31 LD 1
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  17. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

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    YORK UPDATE (like you care)

     
  18. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

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    Interesting (but not surprising given the Scottish elections) that Scotland have the highest turnout for AV votes. They're crazy enough to vote yes, i reckon.
     
  19. Eileen

    Eileen All the better to see you with, my dear.

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    Are the GREENS the new party for people who are lefty but don't want to vote Labour now the LIB DEMS have been fucked up the ARSE by the Tories?
     
  20. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    No. These people should hold their noses and vote labour (unless they live in the rare constituencies where the greens are electable, or if it's a PR vote).
     
  21. dmlaw

    dmlaw Democracy doesn't work

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    Both of the Lim Dem counsellors in my ward have gone, replaced by dirty Tories. :(
     
  22. Eileen

    Eileen All the better to see you with, my dear.

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    Would you change the party you support under PR?
     
  23. Floppet

    Floppet Spider murderer

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  24. Kratz

    Kratz Pearl in the shell.

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    Rather astonishing set of results today, but with no one headline story, which has somewhat wrong-footed the media. The Lib Dems shouldn't be too surprised by what has happened and they are just going to have to get over it. Years of being the third party, that could exploit protest votes, allowed them to be very different things in different parts of the country. Entering government was always going to bring that to an end.
     
  25. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

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    It's theoretically unsurprising that Scotland could vote yes on the AV referendum because we already use the Additional Members System for our parliament election and Single Transferable Vote for the local elections... and are therefore relatively familiar with using other systems already.

    This said, Scotland can also be a bit parochial and anxious to change things. The oldies will vote this one down.

    Edit: Edinburgh Central said yes to AV. *half-hearted cheer*
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  26. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    NO :-(
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  27. Robbie

    Robbie User

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  28. Robbie

    Robbie User

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    Sense has prevailed. Better than the wishy washy AV system. Now if we could have had the choice of PR I would have voted yes.
     
  29. loomer

    loomer User

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    I voted yes cause before I thought the old system seemed really tired and unfair with the eternal Tory dominance of England. I was always for "proportional representation" before but this rebranding confused me and the scare leaflets were very effective - it's fundamentally unattractive to voters anyway, it's just too confusing for most people compared to the pure simplicity of first past the post.

    I knew people would vote against AV to spite Nick Clegg. If the AV campaign had emphasised how simple it could be and you only had to vote one party if you wanted then maybe it would have stood a chance.

    I was seriously confused by that leaflet and was gonna get some cerebral politic bitch like Madison to explain what the advantages actually were.
     
  30. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Why is AV wishy washy?

    And good luck getting a chance to vote on reform again in the next 20 years!
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  31. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Who would benefit from PR, incidentally, or in theory at least? Apart from the GREAT BRITISH PUBLIC of course

    I'm voting Labour from now on I think, the Lib Dems are going to be totally crippled from now on, their big selling point in the coalition and they blew it. Let's all move to Scotland.

    Did I hear correctly that the Scottish Assembly use PR?
     
  32. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Hardly 'of course'. PR leads to weak coalition governments and extremist parties like UKIP and the Greens holding all the cards.
     
  33. Robbie

    Robbie User

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    It's wishy washy because you can vote for more than one candidate. Better to be able to vote for just the one candidate and none of this nonsense about second or third choices being counted.

    PR will probably never happen during our lifetime but AV was always a poor compromise between the current FPTP system and PR.
     
  34. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Why is that better?
     
  35. loomer

    loomer User

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    So was AV the best version? I think someone said a more complicated, mathematical voting system like the one they use in Germany(?) was closest to ideal. None seem perfect.
     
  36. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

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    Additional Members System, which means that you have a constituency vote and the regional list (in which you simply choose a party/independent) and you get MSPs from both. You have a single constituency MSP for your smaller area (for example, my constituency of Edinburgh Central) and the list votes of Edinburgh Central are compiled with those of the larger Lothian region (8 other constituencies) to choose the list MSPs. It does make campaigning a bit weirder, because a lot of smaller parties or candidates choose only to run on the list because they're highly unlikely to win the constituency vote. The Greens for example, only ran on the list for this Scottish Parliament election.

    Germany use MMP (which according to Wikipedia, is basically AMS.)
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  37. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Robbie, hate to say it, but that logic seems a bit wishy-washy, are you just saying FPTP is better just because?

    Just because FPTP is simpler, doesn't mean it's better. In fact if people really want to be bloody-minded about it, they only have to put one choice don't they? I don't think having people voted in on 30% of the vote is allowable just so people can save some thought about who they want.

    It's fine on a two-party system like the olden days (or as good as) but not now
     
  38. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    What's this 'Scottish Assembly' NONSENSE?! :angry:
     
  39. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    OK disregard then, I don't know anything about this. Why were people saying AV was just a rubbish compromise because they couldn't wangle a PR referendum?
     
  40. loomer

    loomer User

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    Ha. I have that Wikipedia page open.

    [​IMG]

    I want to vote fur Die GrĂ¼ne party.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011

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