Brexit Negotiations

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Ag

    Ag User

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    So negotiations have started. May's offer regarding EU citizens in been largely rebuffed by the EU as unimpressive.
     
  2. big ron

    big ron MOD

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    Good. Fuck her.
     
  3. Commotion

    Commotion User

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    At what point will it sink in that the EU is going to decide what Brexit is going to look like and how it will be implemented and that the UK will be a very junior party at the negotiations.

    And will the press continue to be given free reign to stir up xenophobia to ensure Britain gets the worst possible Brexit imaginable?
     
  4. Ag

    Ag User

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    I can envisage this ending with no deal and it being utterly fucking terrible.
     
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  5. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    I doubt it would end without a deal; it would be terrible for the EU too.

    But I read that she said all EU citezens that live in the UK can stay. Is this new or has it always been what she'd wanted?
     
  6. Ag

    Ag User

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    It's almost that. She's never fucking said before. This is the first I've heard for sure. To me it sounds not far off a half decent deal, but then I'm not in that situation.
     
  7. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    I also can't recall reading about it before.
     
  8. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    Yes, but it's not the worst option for the EU's longevity for leaving to end incredibly badly for the one member that tried. The immediate consequences of leaving without a deal would be apocalyptic to the extent that we'd almost certainly sign back up to the status quo as at least a transitional arrangement within about two weeks, after whichever Prime Minister let it happen had been publicly lynched.
     
  9. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    Yes, but surely even Farage knows that and wouldn't want it to happen and therefore I doubt it will.
     
  10. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    I have a feeling a sizeable chunk of Tory MPs don't actually know that - or think it's all "scaremongering".
     
  11. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    Is there ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER that they'll buckle and call another referendum?
     
  12. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    I'd say there's a chance, but an unlikely one. In the event it REALLY goes tits up they'd probably need to do it as a rubberstamp at least, to ward off claims of 'subverting the will of the people' etcetcetc. Whichever party is in government would probably want to avoid having a second referendum unless they absolutely had to call one though, given the whole "neverendum" reputation.

    What I think is more likely is that we leave with a kind of shit deal, Theresa May gets it in the neck, we brazen out one general election with the shit deal because of pride reasons, and then the next general election is won by a party pledging some form of backsliding (but not totally rejoining).
     
  13. Christian

    Christian GOOD BYE!

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    I'm guessing we will rejoin if we even leave in the first place.
     
  14. cwej

    cwej User

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    She and her cronies are such DICKS. Why do they think they will have any power in these talks? 'I'm going to change the rules for EU citizens in the UK, but only if you change them for the UK in the EU'.

    Why would they give us special treatment? We're fucking them over.

    It's ridiculous.
     
  15. Ag

    Ag User

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    Free movement to end in 2019. What the perimeters of that are anyone's guess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  16. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    This is naive but is it not possible to return to the EU in a future referendum?
     
  17. Commotion

    Commotion User

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    If Britain ever tried to rejoin the EU it would have to adopt the euro and won't have any of the special opt outs it now has.
     
  18. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    I doubt the EU would force eurozone membership. A UK rejoining would be a massive coup - but that would stop it dead. (And in any case, we could always do a Sweden; they 'have to' adopt the euro too.)

    Other opt outs and the rebate - sure.
     
  19. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    Yeah, I don't think the euro would be an issue. In fact, I'm not even sure the EU will stand united all the way against UK; countries like Poland and Hungary might ruin everything.
     
  20. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    Is anyone else feeling like there's more likelihood of a second Referendum under the Tories than Labour?

    It feels like it's all going so very badly, but I fear Corbyn is so ideologically pro-Brexit that he'd push through regardless, whereas I can really see the Tories U-turning at some point if faced with a disastrous deal.
     
  21. Slave

    Slave User

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    Although I think the result would be markedly different this time, would the Tories even consider it after the MESS of the election?

    Just imagine they called another referendum (and essentially acknowledged that things aren't going well) and the result stuck. Surely that would absolutely decimate their credibility as a political party. And actually even if the result changed, it's still going to piss a LOT of their supporters off.
     
  22. Shirley

    Shirley Worra load of old SHIT

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    Good luck to JEREMY in getting support for THAT from the party
     
  23. Ag

    Ag User

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    It's sounding exclusively like a fucking disaster at the moment. Another referendum is entirely possible.
     
  24. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    SURELY a second referendum wouldn't go the same way again? It only passed fairly narrowly last time and now it's much more obvious to practically everyone that it's turning into an absolute clusterfuck.

    Plus hopefully a big enough chunk of the Rule Brittania cunts who voted for it the first time round are already DEAD. :hitler:
     
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  25. Slave

    Slave User

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    I think far more young people would turn out to vote this time - even if the same Brexit contingent turned out to repeat the vote, I imagine the uplift in new voters would swing it way back.
     
  26. Ag

    Ag User

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    How would you vote?
     
  27. Ag

    Ag User

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    I doubt it would be a second referendum on membership, rather departure terms, or rather lack of.
     
  28. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    I don't quite understand how that would play out though?

    Say the Tories cobble together a terrible deal and put it before the electorate, then it gets overwhelmingly rejected - what happens then? THIRD referendum?

    Given we're almost certain to come out of this at a massive loss, I can't see any referendum on a deal not failing massively, because both pro and anti Brexit voters would be unhappy with it.
     
  29. Ag

    Ag User

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    I'm not sure either, but I guess that will reveal itself depending on the scale of the disaster come spring 2019.
     
  30. Slave

    Slave User

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    Honestly...I'm not sure now that it's as simple as in or out, and I'm not sure that a simple vote in those terms is something I'd feel I could vote for.

    As you say, the terms of membership or departure are something that are much more important (although I'm not sure so many people would vote for that).

    The fact it took all of this to get ensuring the rights of the people who come to this country and recognising them as people, not numbers onto the table is thus far about the only positive thing. And obviously without dredging through it all again, that's ultimately what I have always wanted and what I think everyone in this country deserves, but that many have been deprived of.
     
  31. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    The biggest thing I've seen since the referendum is just the amount of contempt shown towards old people. All the comments I read from people in The Guardian, The Telegraph and The Economist (which I'd like to think are fairly reliable publications) are all about how the Baby Boomers are holding the Millenials ransom with their maladroit ideologies and their "Get off my lawn!" attitudes. Has it really become old vs young?
     
  32. Indie

    Indie Skeptopotamus

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    The more time goes on the more I am convinced this is all a massive ruse.

    Stage 1) make negotiations look like they're going badly
    Stage 2) pull it out of the bag before 2 years is up
    Stage 3) enjoy a wave of popularity for winning in an underdog way and sweep to victory in 2022.
     
  33. Ag

    Ag User

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    Pretty much. Although I don't spend a great deal of time thinking about Brexit like I did a year ago, whenever somebody mentions a sad old person, I just say "Don't feel sorry for them, they've left us with Brexit"
     
  34. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    FUCK THE OLD

    Clueless jingoistic cunts the lot of them
     
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  35. Dark Carnival

    Dark Carnival Missss Vaaaaaanjie

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    I see Slave is still alive and well.
     
  36. Slave

    Slave User

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    I'm one of the two, at least.
     
  37. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    I'm afraid a referendum on a deal is even more complicated to "do". What the UK need is someone with a real sense of responsibility that that can stop this madness before it's too late.
     
  38. Indie

    Indie Skeptopotamus

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    I'll give it a shot
     
  39. Ag

    Ag User

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    Not sure there's ANYONE. Brexit is so unpredictable, that it's fucking ridiculous such a relatively significant nation was given a democratic option to do it.
     
  40. Mats

    Mats User

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    leaked draft suggests the end of free movement. isn't that effectively a goodbye to the single market then?
     

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