Brexit Negotiations

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Ag

    Ag User

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    But anyway Gove might be about to be PM. Let's not fucking in-fight over who turns up at a protest. Let the historians do that.
     
  2. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock TRAY UP, BITCH

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    I’m not judging anyone for turning up or having a good time... although at what point did protesting become an opportunity for a nice day out?

    I agree that i’m judging based on a snapshot, but that’s the image that I come away with (as someone who didn’t attend). And that has implications for how the protest is received more broadly.

    Will this make any difference if the only images we see are archetypal Remainers whose biggest concern appears to be whether their sign will go viral or not?
     
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  3. Ag

    Ag User

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    People don't need to smash shit up to make a point. The numbers made the point. And why not have a fucking laugh? What would be the point of a having a protest and no-one took any photos, because it was so boring. Besides it's got the point where if you don't laugh at the whole farce, you'll KILL YOURSELF. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the people there were there primarily because they FUCKING HATE BREXIT, whether they had a funny sign or not.
     
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  4. Shirley

    Shirley YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

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    I agree it can come across as more that a little bit SMUG but as someone who went through the 1993 WELLING RIOT there's a lot to be said for PEACEFUL PROTESTS
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  5. Ag

    Ag User

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    I went to the 2001 May Day Protest with the infamous kettling of the crowds. That was quite feral.
     
  6. Slave

    Slave User

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    #twitterpolitics also suggests that May could remain PM but resign as an MP. Which would allow the Tories to prepare for her successor whilst allowing her to continue as the sacrificial lamb.
     
  7. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    It would be ludicrous for her to remain as PM and resign as MP.
     
  8. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    But he wants to ban McDonald's Monopoly!!!
     
  9. octophone

    octophone smack your lips (clap your teeth)

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    If you take any group of a million or so people from the UK public, there is a very strong prospect that a percentage of them with be extroverted with a side order of exhibitionists. So, yes, there will always be "funny" banners for "The 'Gram" and this provides an easy shot for detractors. What's more interesting this time is how little that shot has been taken by the mainstream media with the front pages seemingly either having a huge photograph of the event or being entirely bereft of the barest mention.
     
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  10. Beverley

    Beverley I Don't Wanna Change A THI-ING

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    The protests on both sides are bullshit. Sticking a hi-viz jacket on does not people you a working class warrior, a la gilet jaunes. Similarly, I agree with mug and tetra, the optics of the one million are important, but could have transcended the class divide if they was a little more POLITICS in the messaging.
     
  11. ButterTart

    ButterTart Welcome to die

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    I get what people are saying, but the turnout spoke much louder than any sign could.
    I imagine (and I’ve seen) that there were a good proportion of serious placards, but as Octy says, that’s not the sort of thing that picks up traction on social media.
    I’m working class, I lived for a good few years on the absolute breadline, my family is working class and so are the majority of my friends - there’s only so much truck I have in this ‘class divide’ notion because the facts are there if you put down your copy of the Sun long enough to look at them. I don’t really care how that makes me sound, ignorance as an excuse for poor judgement only carries so much weight with me.
     
  12. Ag

    Ag User

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    Easy to criticise when you weren't there.

    Can no one do anything anymore without being picked for being slightly off message?

    YAWN. BIGGER PICTURE BITCHES.
     
  13. Beverley

    Beverley I Don't Wanna Change A THI-ING

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    I need to have been there to criticise?

    GURRRL
     
  14. Ag

    Ag User

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    Well what would you have done differently? I'm interested because at the moment I just see PETTY CRITIQUES of people on the same side. Have bitches forgotten who the REAL ARSEHOLES in all this are?

    In short - PICK BETTER FIGHTS.
     
  15. Mugatu

    Mugatu Ladministrator

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    It's hardly nitpicking. If the People's Vote campaign are in charge of overturning this mess then I think it's perfectly warranted to criticise them from the left. I just want them to get a better message than printing out hypocritical tweets and ignoring any sort of class argument.

    They're the campaigners who are supposedly going to listen, we're not advocating that everyone goes out and joins Nigel Farage's march instead.
     
  16. Ag

    Ag User

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    I think I'm on fairly safe ground when I say they ain't going to turn anything around. Only 326 MPs can do that. I'm just pleased a march of historical numbers has been recorded.

    I'm not sure how the class arguments that come from Brexit can be dealt with on a march. Bus in a load of people from estates?
     
  17. Mugatu

    Mugatu Ladministrator

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    The other side are obviously worse but we've been burned by these people's uselessness once before already. It's understandable to be worried that they've doubled down on the same tactics as 2016!

    I'm not a highly-paid consultant or friends with Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson, but I'd personally try to offer some plans for reforming the EU and improving post-industrial areas. I'd stop using some of the most despised politicians in the country as faces of the campaign and actually make the case for how staying in would improve life for working class people.

    I definitely wouldn't try to turn voting Remain into some lame cultural movement where everyone acts like overturning Brexit is a panel show on Radio 4. Admittedly that is probably the pickiest thing.
     
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  18. Ag

    Ag User

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    What you desire I too desire and I would hope would come from a Labour government. For me, I'm a believer in picking your arguments (hard to believe I know, but as a bitch I've been burned) and right now Brexit is so fucking dominant and I can't see that happening. Once the dust settles over this shit storm, count me in on campaigning for relevant social changes
     
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  19. Ag

    Ag User

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    In other news the coup appears to be dead which is a touch anticlimactic.
     
  20. Slave

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    God this bitch can’t make ANYTHING happen can she.
     
  21. Mugatu

    Mugatu Ladministrator

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    I know I can come across as a contrarian in these threads but I see crowds of people on that march literally cheering on Michael Heseltine and I just find the wilful ignorance of the underlying causes for Brexit (in places like Morecambe) to be really frustrating.

    It's much easier to protest against one concrete event and I'm glad some people feel more radical because of the referendum, but I wish more of them had this beret-wearing fanaticism for the wider anti-austerity movement as well. Michael Heseltine isn't your friend!
     
  22. Beverley

    Beverley I Don't Wanna Change A THI-ING

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    The whole thing about picking better fights presumes that they're black and white. The nuances of all this are super important; they actually contain clues as to what we need to be focusing on. If we don't look at them, our protests and our organising is ultimately meaningless. I mean, I don't want to be rude, but I just can't sometimes
     
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  23. Ag

    Ag User

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    GURLL etc etc.

    YAWN.
     
  24. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    As a medium-paid consultant and close personal friend of Peter Mandelson and Saddam Hussein, I think a second referendum would be a complete fucking disaster which would see Leave win in a landslide.
     
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  25. Ag

    Ag User

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    AGREED. Fuck any more referendums.
     
  26. Slave

    Slave User

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    I was a little disheartened to see someone marching yesterday claim that a second referendum would reunite the country and move people closer together again.
     
  27. Ag

    Ag User

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    Yeah I saw that. I was AGOG. But then someone else pointed out that it couldn't be worse than it already is. The response is of course Jo Cox x1000s.
     
  28. ameraal

    ameraal true love is making a comeback

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    has there been any polling the on likely outcome in a second referendum? not that polling is what it used to be.
     
  29. Jark

    Jark User

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    Corbyn has been a joke on Brexit, a fucking joke. I don't know how anyone who really wants to stay can say they're a supporter at this point because the man sure as fuck doesn't give any
     
  30. Ag

    Ag User

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    Yes. Remain has a commanding lead:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opini...membership_referendum#Post-referendum_polling

    But that's out of the condition of an active campaign and during probably the most comprehensively poor coverage Brexit has received to date. Of course Theresa May lost her majority in 2017 despite a 25% lead at the start of the campaign, so caution is integral.
     
  31. Ag

    Ag User

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    Also I wouldn't trust online polling, despite it being the dominant method. Not that I know anything about their polling methods, but online polls are liable to manipulation and sway towards whatever side is more likely to involve themselves in such polls (most likely remainers, at a guess).
     
  32. octophone

    octophone smack your lips (clap your teeth)

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    In my experience, people to the Left are more likely to differ on the way forward than those on the Right. This is largely because the Right wing is less concerned with the world around them except insofar as what profit they can make from them and how many of their nasty prejudices they can enshrine in legislation, thus restricting the prospect of a meritocracy.

    Whilst Brexit isn't a Left/Right issue, it is nevertheless a good representation of this because those who want Brexit largely don't care about how it happens as long as they gain in the way they wish to gain, varying from disaster capitalists through to those who regard the EU as a corrupt institution, through to those who want fewer brown faces on the streets and have yet to twig that the latter isn't a thing. Those who don't want it have multiple possible paths and therefore a lot more upon which to disagree. This inevitably looks like disunity and is easy to portray as such.
     
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  33. cwej

    cwej User

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    Those polls are incredible. I still don';t believe them though. We;'ve been burned too many times by polls recently.
     
  34. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    That's more of a danger for self-selecting online polls. Proper online polls by the likes of YouGov are more properly sampled and less subject to stuff like that
     
  35. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    Yeah, there's zero chance it'd look like that after a campaign. We had Labour backing Remain and the Tories without an official position but institutionally behind Remain (along with the civil service) last time - we'd have neither of them officially backing Remain next time and the Tories actively backing Leave. It'd be a shitshow.
     
  36. SDF

    SDF The Wait is Over

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    Surely enough old folk died over the last few winters to sway the result :disco:
     
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  37. Indie

    Indie Skeptopotamus

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    If I ever take part in online polls, I always say I'm a Tory voter. Mostly to fuck with pollsters.
     
  38. big ron

    big ron MOD

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    People complaining about the march from their front rooms? Honestly fuck you all. You're the reason this country is the fucking pits.
     
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  39. ButterTart

    ButterTart Welcome to die

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    I don’t think the outcome of a second referendum would be the same, not if the remain campaign was handled correctly and was fought properly. It kills me that I can’t campaign because of my job, because I know exactly how many jobs will be lost in this area if there’s a hard Brexit - massive employers in the automotive industry have already secured EU funding to relocate if we leave without a deal, that’s the sort of shit the campaign should lead with.
     
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  40. octophone

    octophone smack your lips (clap your teeth)

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    But that's the horror. The ERG are quite happy for manufacturing to die. That's how vile they are. Detestable in every way.
     

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