Election Hangover: Snap Labour post-mortem

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Jark, Dec 13, 2019.

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Where did it all go wrong?

  1. Jeremy Corbyn's lack of popularity among middle aged/older voters

    93.3%
  2. Unpopular policies and/or an overstuffed manifesto

    40.0%
  3. The party's only recently-clarified "neutral" Brexit stance

    93.3%
  4. The anti-semitism distraction / Corbyn's response to it

    60.0%
  5. Jeremy Corbyn's performances on TV

    13.3%
  6. I think Labour ran a strong campaign and the result was outside their control

    20.0%
  7. I think Labour ran an OK campaign with room for improvement

    20.0%
  8. I think Labour ran a disastrous campaign (please elaborate)

    40.0%
  9. I think Labour can get back into power within 10 years

    40.0%
  10. I don't think Labour can get back into power within 10 years

    46.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Indie

    Indie Great Tits

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    Watching vox-pops of voters. Soundbites like "I voted boris because it can't get any worse" or "wages have been stagnating for the last ten years so I voted boris"

    It utterly astounds me how fucking stupid other humans are.
     
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  2. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    The economic argument desperately needs to be reframed. Conservatives crush it on that front - people just don't buy into the idea of 'free stuff'.

    Including healthcare, it seems. :(
     
  3. dmlaw

    dmlaw Democracy doesn't work

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    I really don't like the way that I'm feeling this morning and it's a feeling that seems to be common with the people that believe the same things as me. I'm very concerned that we're moving towards an attitude of believing that the voters in the North and the Midlands who won this election deserve the pain that the Tories are about to pile onto them. That they need to see just how much worse things will get before they'll admit that we were right and let us sort it out for them. I know why we, and I, feel this way after the past few years, but I worry that we're at risk of turning into the dismissive, metropolitan elites that the right wing press have been trying to smear us as.
     
  4. octophone

    octophone O = 0

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    That's because they need to stop framing it as "free" - the NHS isn't "free", it's paid for by taxation. But this seems to turn some people off, the whole "why should I pay for your tonsilectomy" etc. We need people to get more angry about tax dodging rather than it being framed as aspirational; to earn enough money to need an accountant to use all the loopholes for you.
     
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  5. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I kinda see the Northern votes as an overdue and probably necessary realignment of the political map. Labour need to really work out who their target voters are and work with the progressive parties.
     
  6. octophone

    octophone O = 0

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    I know what you're getting at but there's also a part of me that keeps thinking of that tweet (I don't recall the author) - "I didn't think lions would eat my face" says person who voted for the Lions Eating People's Faces Party.

    There's no fun in karma when we're all feeling the pain.
     
  7. Mugatu

    Mugatu onlyfans.com/mugatu

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    Pragmatic on what evidence, though? Starmer was one of the biggest Remainers in the Shadow Cabinet, he got put into hiding as soon as the campaign realised they had to protect Leave seats. Why reward one of the main architects of Labour's Brexit policy after such a massive failure?

    I know there is a great deal of opposition to Brexit on here, some of it warranted, but a Labour government is impossible without these deindustrialised, pro-Brexit places. Corbynism has ultimately proved to be a movement for and by well-meaning but comfortable people.
     
  8. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Well hopefully in 10 years Brexit won't be such an issue.

    This doesn't stand well for the Democrats next year. At all.
     
  9. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    :bruised:
     
  10. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    I'm usually wrong, but I foresee a long, protracted and ultimately very soft brexit, followed by a Labour government. By then I'll be back in Spain on Irish passport though.
     
  11. Mugatu

    Mugatu onlyfans.com/mugatu

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    People will definitely use this election to bash Bernie but I think it's the wrong comparison. Looking at how the result played out, Corbyn's coalition of voters is far more comparable to Elizabeth Warren's support.
     
  12. Shirley

    Shirley BIG-HEARTED BUNNY

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  13. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

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    Of course it's something to build on (or rather, not something to be completely thrown away). Shitloads of the 1983 manifesto made it into the 1997 one.
     
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  14. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Oh sure, hence my qualification that we don't just try to turn the clock back, which I know a lot of Corbyn supporters fear.

    But there definitely needs to be a stark recognition of what elements - beyond Corbyn's own voter toxicity - fundamentally aren't working. If he'd run it a bit (well, a lot) closer, I think that level of delusion and wishful thinking probably would have continued.
     
  15. BoysForSeles

    BoysForSeles User

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    I have a couple of friends in Dorset, one a doctor, one a lecturer and both said they would never vote for Corbyn (they voted LibDem). Obviously it’s far more complex but both Corbyn and Diane Abbott were Labour’s biggest problems.
     
  16. cwej

    cwej User

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    Whilst I think this is true (and that even the Lib Dems will probably shut up about it soon), it does also depend on how disastrous Brexit ends up being. If it really is the stuff of nightmares then it might be quicker than a generation. If it is fine, then it will be forgotten about by all but the middle-class internationalists.
     
  17. cwej

    cwej User

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    To be honest I just feel really sorry for them.

    They've been utterly hoodwinked and yes shit is gonna hit the fan for them very quickly - and then who do they go to?! Well.. that's when parties even further right start getting involved again. The Hartlepool report from Channel 4 the other day is not an isolated situation. It's really really quite scary.


    At the same time I feel like MY view is not being listened to at all and I'm a bit tired of being told time and time again that the working classes of the North are the forgotten people. All but the very wealthy are fucked over by the Tories and I feel forgotten too. And the 48% have been ignored constantly for nearly 4 years now.
     
  18. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

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    1. This wasn't the worst terrain possible to fight a general election on (Labour would've had even bigger chunks torn out of its vote by the Lib Dems had the deal been passed with Labour rebels' votes, and god knows losses to the Lib Dems were in themselves decisive enough in seats like Blyth Valley), but it was close to it.

    Not letting Boris have the election in September - when no deal was the only thing he could've pointed to to "get Brexit done", which was astonishingly good terrain for Labour - is going to go down with Jim Callaghan's 'Waiting At The Church' moment as one of the most fatefully catastrophic misjudgements in the party's history. As it was, Boris got the time to go get his own exit deal that he could credibly point to to "get Brexit done" and politics go away. Undecided voters wanted to make politics go away, and the terrain being a deal that would 'sort it' vs. a second referendum made it a no brainer on those grounds.

    (That that absolutely isn't going to happen and the issue's going to keep rumbling on and on and on when he can't get a trade deal done by July is going to come back to haunt him.)

    2. Undecided voters stopped believing our promises, because they thought we were promising them everything. When even all of it being costed can't win you credibility - when there's literally nothing you can say to win someone over, because they don't believe you can make it happen as you've committed to too much, it's fatal. We should've stuck with the level of ambition we had in the 2017 manifesto, let alone been fucking whacking out £68 billion promises to pay for WASPI women's pensions out of nowhere after we'd already released the manifesto. Given that, can we really blame the public for being a bit wary?

    3. Anti-Semitism is frankly a scar on the party and an issue (along with the interminable fucking Kremlinology over the nuances between AS and anti-Zionism) that should've never been allowed to drag on and take up as much time as it did, considering how utterly fucking irrelevant Labour Party/UK policy is to what happens with Israel/Palestine.
     
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  19. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

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