Final Fantasy 7 (Remake)

Discussion in 'Gaming & Tech' started by Phoenix, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    I'm through the Wall Market and shut the game down just before Aps.

    I like how the Wall Market "stuff" was handled and stayed mostly faithful to the original, with the odd caveat

    Nothing that would surprise anyone but putting in spoilers just in case people prefer going in blind to what the remake does and doesn't have:
    I knew they wouldn't be able to resist writing out the gay bath with Mukki and co. Mixed feelings (and I say that as a queer, or half of one) - I was fine with it and even looking forward to that scene. Yes it was a bit "lol them gays and their borderline rape" but as someone mentioned elsewhere this could be interpreted as taking the piss out of the straights and their homophobic assumptions if you wanted to. However I also know time has moved on, it's super dated and problematic for many, yada yada and yeah... The way they modernised it was well done with quite a nice message about gender just after Ms. cloud is revealed

    In other stuff - no one in the clothes shop shouted "don't push! Hooligan!" At me - ZERO STARS - but glad the broken item shop was still there, and most of the original sidequests. Don Corneo's place was perfect also. And of course... The house.
     
  2. Lee

    Lee Ne me quitte pas

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    I'm working my way through it on hard mode now. Already on Chapter 6!
     
  3. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    how much harder is it?
     
  4. COB

    COB Nasty Boys

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    I'm not sure I'm even going to try it! You can't use items, and benches only restore HP so you have to use abilities/materia combos to restore your MP.
     
  5. COB

    COB Nasty Boys

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    Also the enemies are harder of course. Mz COB was telling me that Hell House spawns Tonberries in hard mode :o
     
  6. COB

    COB Nasty Boys

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    I just saw this fanart, and it's made me want a proper 2D versus fighting game with FF characters more than EVER:
    [​IMG]
    I also really can't wait for Cait Sith the KING in part 2 :disco:
     
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  7. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    And there goes Sector 7. They did it proud, especially Aerith's little rescue tangent where someone seemed to start cutting onions in my room.
     
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  8. Lee

    Lee Ne me quitte pas

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    Not much. No items. Otherwise I’ve not had any issues. I want the platinum trophy.
     
  9. Lee

    Lee Ne me quitte pas

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    :o I’m a few chapters away from that yet but no thanks!
     
  10. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    Now on chapter 14 where you basically get to do what you want / "help people out" for a while. It's at this point that I hope I don't just get sick of it - could go straight to the HQ but probably be too weak, but do I fancy mooching around the same old slums doing for another 10 hours :/

    Also, interesting retcon there
    with Wedge surviving. Wonder who else might, if they're going down the retcon rabbit hole
     
  11. COB

    COB Nasty Boys

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    There aren't THAT many sidequests in chapter 14, it's a few hours worth at most I'd say - there's also new stuff in the coliseum I think, so definitely do that (I think you end up there as part of a sidequest actually). Also do the chocobo quest first, trust me!
     
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  12. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    The side quests are probably one of the more disappointing parts of the game. They're kinda lame and like they've just been put there to extend gameplay time.

    I wish they involved going to other sectors or at least contain more interesting narratives.
     
  13. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    Yes thanks for that!

    Not too tedious so far, thankfully.

    Thought Kyrie was one of those bad translations (from Kylie) but no, it's pronounced KIRRY-YAY O_o
     
  14. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    Also Scarlet clearly a QoL.
     
  15. Lee

    Lee Ne me quitte pas

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    OMG Hell House on hard mode is ridiculous. I’ve tried about 10 times now. I can get it down to about 10% health and it spawns two cutters. I don’t stand a chance!
     
  16. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    That swine was hard enough on normal! Took an eternity and most of my ethers
     
  17. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    I'm getting REALLY CHEESED OFF chasing this god damn frog around the god damn sewers
     
  18. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    That part is hard. Such annoying creatures
     
  19. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    Everything topside is 10/10 amazing though. So many fun fights and so much incredibly detail.
     
  20. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    Yeah I faced Game Over a few times. It's one of those sections that highlights one of the more frustrating parts of the battle mechanics - when you get tossed across the room like a ragdoll! I learned to love Barrett for the ones where you get chucked around or bound a lot.

    But indeed don't get me wrong it's a great game and so far has been pretty much everything I'd hoped for in a remake. I'm in a habit of trying to consciously throw in some criticism after being called several unkind names in another forum for saying everyone was being too negative...

    Not heading up top yet, but I'm about to finish chapter 14 (one sidequest to finish first) and have set things in motion ready for chapter 15...
    it's just not the same being handed a grappling gun. I was looking forward to seeing how they'd do the ICONIC moment of Barrett yelling about a "golden shiny wire of hope" and retconning it out wasn't what I had in mind!
     
  21. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    I was dreading the "underground menace" but he was an absolute pushover :D At least with Barrett in charge so you can keep a distance...

    Speaking of which I'm still using his original weapon! Light machine gun has too low stats, big bertha same thing, and the next two are close combat weapons and negate the point of using Barrett...
     
  22. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    Yeah I hated non-long range weapons on Barrett. He's too slow.

    Although Big Bertha is a fucking beast. Especially if you pair Elemental with Lightning materia. That's like half of the games monsters already at a disadvantage.
     
  23. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    Yeah I've switched to Big Bertha now after levelling all the weapons up and realising it was quite a goodun
     
  24. Lee

    Lee Ne me quitte pas

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    I fucking finally beat HellHouse on hard mode. I probably tried somewhere between 40-50 times and got lucky launching Aerith’s second limit break and summoning Bahamut at exactly the right time to take out everything still alive and the last sliver of Hell Houses life.
    Apparently you have to do it all again to get the other manuscript. NO THANKS.
     
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  25. ZenGiraffe

    ZenGiraffe SioráfZen

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    I just did my second kill of it today. Having triple slash ready for the Tonberrys was a big help. They were dead before they stood up.
     
  26. Lee

    Lee Ne me quitte pas

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    I found triple slash unhelpful as it kept targeting Hell House. But I rarely found the Tonberrys an issue. It was more a combination of revival earings and poisoning that got me through in the end.
     
  27. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    Aaaaand done! 57 hours 41 minutes...and that's just how long it took to write the following walls of text no one will be arsed to read.

    In all, I'm glad it happened and despite a few trepidations will definitely be playing part 2, let me say that first. I'm actually quite looking forward to it. As long as we live long enough to see the other parts! A remake was never likely to be perfect and they were never NOT going to meddle with it, so I've not gone into this with those expectations. The meddling has its pain points that I'll get to in more detail in spoilers. Really to be honest I wanted an exact upgraded-but-expanded version of the original story without "those other elements" (in the spoilers) but while sitting through the credits reflecting on the game and what they've done - it's obviously an effort to add some new twists and surprises for fans of the original so that we're not just sat there playing through a story we already know. Seems fair enough and it's appreciated - the only reason I have misgivings about it is because I'm worried, because..... spoilers...

    Okay, SPOILERS for the entire game including ending PLUS the original entire game (i.e. the possible future of this game) so if you've not played both this is not for you. I do know people who have somehow managed to remain blissfully ignorant of things that happen in the original game, which is amazing and I'd hate to be the one to break it. By the way tread carefully if you read the thread at all. But anyway.

    It was exactly as I hoped in the beginning, a pretty much perfect replica of the original, tweaked and expanded here and there to make more sense in the new modern style.

    And then it sort of diverged and sort of didn't and then it really sort of did.

    It's like this gradient where it gets more "wrong" the further you go until the end. First reactor - perfect. Then it's close enough but the Dementors Whispers start appearing. Then Sephiroth turns up early. More Whispers. Shinra just kind of sends a hologram instead of turning up at reactor 5, but whatever, that seems more sensible of him and I keep on dealing with it. The extra force of the bomb turns out to be Shinra's doing and not actually the fault of Jessie/Avalanche which takes some of the weight away from the guilt Barrett and Tifa ask themselves about in some conversations that happened on the Highwind in the original, but again I think "whatever" and crack on.

    You meet Aerith properly in the church, it's exactly as I remembered and a brilliant reconstruction of that segment. Then before too long the first signs of proper fourth wall breaking - flash-forwards about her death. Little hints, flashes of her Holy materia falling. I think "well okay, newcomers to FF7 won't realise it's about that so whatever" but then you think "well then it's talking to us, the people who've played the original. What's it saying? What does it add to the story for Cloud to have glimpses of the future?"

    From there for a while it's pretty much following the original game again, except for that moment Cait Sith appears. Again: Newcomers probably won't think much of it even though it's technically ruining a surprise but... why? What's the point of him showing up?

    And then more divergence. You can do what you (well, what I) always wanted to do in the original, and get back into Sector 7 and see who survived. And here's your first major retcon: Wedge is alive. But, I can take this, you never did see for yourself that BW&J were dead and I did wonder through the first play of the original whether they'd turn up alive sometime. But still, they didn't, their deaths were talked about, and this time they did. Retcon. Or is it.....? Discovering early that Wedge was still alive is, but maybe in the original he survived. Otherwise wouldn't the Whispers have something to say about it?

    Anyway that aside and in your mind you carry on to Shinra and all the rest of it. And then it gets crazy. Flash-forwards of Meteor and the destruction of Midgar. All this talk about the arbiters of fate. Barrett freaking DIES, and I think "WHAT THE HOLY FUCK? NO I WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS RETCON WITH NO BARRETT IN PART 2, SCREW IT ALL TO HELL" and then as if they heard, bam, they give him a Dementor's Kiss of Life and he's back. And then I kind of realised just how meta this game is getting. The arbiters of fate are YOU. The player who's played the original, and thinks they can call the shots, and they represent a conversation between you and the writers who want to shake things up. They humour you and bring Barrett back to life because that "wasn't his fate". But what will they, and what will you and the characters, do when Aerith is supposed to die? Well, isn't that the question? It's like it's challenging you to defy "fate" and save her this time. And maybe even stop Meteor and save Midgar while you're at it.

    This can go one of two ways:
    1) Gets people's hopes up that they can change things but just like last time, you try to stop Meteor, you try to call out to Aerith, but you can't. Things still go wrong, you still have some darkness to get through before anyone "lives happily ever after". Probably the better way, but also a bit mean to dangle that extra carrot. Just let things happen like they did in the first place

    2) The story becomes about defying fate and writing yourself a new future instead of what happened in the original. Oh bloody great. I'd have loved to do things like reviving Aerith in the original back in the day but part of that game's history is that you CANNOT, that sometimes things don't go your way, and part of 'digesting' that game is really a parallel to acceptance in the real world - things go wrong. People die. People you love. You can't undo it, you can't magically "defy fate", they're dead. This is my biggest problem with all this - the worry that they'll meddle with future instalments and let the player just be a massive Mary Sue that wins at everything and saves everyone. Aerith survives, Midgar survives, fate is told to go do one and everyone lives happily ever after.

    Stay tuned for part 2 of this post because it's too VERBOSE for the forum to digest.
     
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  28. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    (cont.) MASSIVE FULL ORIGINAL AND REMAKE SPOILERS INCLUDING ENDING SPOILERS

    So then you have all the weird parallel / future universe stuff, have exactly the fight with Sephiroth that was meant to be at the very end of the final game, and it appears to then get back to normal almost as if none of it ever happened and you just escaped Midgar like the original. Oh apart from the weird bits where you see Zack, who you're not supposed to know about until WAY later when Sephy is screwing with your mind. Oh just... whatever. A lot of my discomfort is, as represented by the Whispers, seeing things happen differently to what they're "supposed" to. Oh and then Biggs is alive - well, I suppose you didn't technically check his pulse and announce that he's dead, and you did just say he was "in really bad shape, I'm sorry", but.. well, seems Barrett is destined to leave his old buddies for dead when he could have saved them :D

    So yeah the way they're taking this. Who knows? The Whispers / Arbiters clearly IMO represent players of the original who want things to go as they were "supposed to" but to what extent (and I wonder if Jessie is alive). Perhaps they leave the story alone but if someone was supposed to live or die they intervene. In which case it's saying that Biggs and Wedge survived in the original. Which is plausible, you just never saw them.


    Other things then.....
    Just being able to see the plates above you (or the lack of one when it falls) makes a huge difference to the atmosphere, for the better. You just kind of have to take everyone's word for it in the original. Heck let's just say, the graphics are amazing and I can't wait to see what the wider world looks like.

    Materia system - love it, very similar to the original. It's just a shame it's not a single game so that you can nurture a set of materia right through to the end, as there's nothing more satisfying than getting a full set of Master Materia. I imagine they'll start you off with some basics for part 2 rather than have you wade in super powerful from your part 1 save.

    Battle system - I actually like that too. Personal taste, I know some wanted the original turn based thing. It's taken a few games for them to get this right - I didn't like XII with the 'gambits' thing, I didn't like XIII which was a hack-and-slash but with those weird "modes" you could set your characters to, and what I played of XV was a bit hack-and-slash too. This finally strikes a nice balance between action and strategy, pausing to let you choose magic/actions. Good stuff.

    Some of the added depth was great. Controlling Aerith and saving Marlene - that was lovely, touching, made me tear up at one point. New characters like Marle are a nice addition. Seeing the upper plate of sector 7 was cool. The first part of the Shinra HQ was EXCELLENT, thanks to the inspired idea of making Mayor Domino an Avalanche plant and explaining that it's him who's enabled you to bumble around so far. The whole Shinra section made a LOT more sense than thinking "why's this maze here? Why's this puzzle game here? Why am I being attacked by a robot fish centipede thing in the middle of a freaking corridor?" as before.

    Some of the padding was shit. Anything that has you running back and forward across platforms for hours, so particularly reactor 5 and Hojo's secret lab. Tedious, both of them.

    What they did with the train graveyard was pretty good, if a little lengthy (again). The ghost, neato. I wondered if we'd see that guy on the chariot who you can steal a weapon from and sure enough he didn't disappoint. I really like a little later on how they meet the ghost again and Aerith sort of calms his soul and sends him on his way back to the planet. Made me think of Yuna, which is an interesting point as Nomura commented at one time that FFX-2 and FFVII are connected (it's heavily implied in X-2 that the kid is the same Shinra, or perhaps an ancestor).

    Johnny! Yeah a very minor character in the original but who I hoped to see fleshed out. I don't know how much I regret it though :D

    As predicted, the battle banter gets old. Well, apart from hearing Barrett suddenly bellowing out the victory fanfare, which is hilarious every time. But things like "get behind me" "yep! Then I've got your back~" get a bit repetitive the 500th time you hear them.

    It's a bit quick when Shinra is killed. It was a big moment in the original but in this one someone new to the game could blink and not realise and then wonder who the hell Rufus is. That is, assuming Shinra IS dead - at this point who knows, anyone could turn out to be alive.

    Much like the original, it's quite thought provoking with its allegory to human induced climate change (and its ironic references to corporate greed, considering how many £50 instalments it's likely to be in). Barrett makes some comments about the complicity of standing by being a part of it all that sort of hit home ("I feel personally attacked!" as they say on Reddit), even though in reality probably none of us will go around blowing things up to save the planet and we'll probably just carry on listening to motivating comments on video games while the world burns around us.

    Hopefully none of this sounds like I hate it or anything as actually on the whole I loved it. Thoughts are lengthy about the things that bug me but I don't hate them, a lot of it is "I'm worried about the direction they'll take it later" and "I'm upset on behalf of other people that they won't experience quite the same story as what I did in 1997". Overall I have thoroughly enjoyed playing it. It got me thinking and wondering where it'll go next, rather than just being a blow by blow remake, which is arguably more interesting.

    Oh yeah the music... a mixed bag. I thought there were some great versions of old tracks - but also some naff ones. I liked most of the battle remixes.

    Will I go back through the chapters and try to get all the trophies? Hmmmmm maybe later. I am ready to play something else for a bit.
     
  29. COB

    COB Nasty Boys

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    Are we allowed to say we fancy game characters these days? Because, well...
    [​IMG]
    :love:
     
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  30. ZenGiraffe

    ZenGiraffe SioráfZen

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    I hope so.

    [​IMG]
     
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  31. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo User

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    Barrett is delicious (and 20 years younger than I imagined him to be in 1997) in the remake. Is the character still a dodgy Mr T impression?
     
  32. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    Yeah pretty much.
     
  33. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    I'm just glad they kept Tifa's massive JUGS.
     
  34. COB

    COB Nasty Boys

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    I've seen some criticism of remake Barret being too much of an angry black man stereotype particularly near the start of the game, but he does get some decent development and shows other sides to his character later on.
     
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  35. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    And that's kinda the brilliance of this remake. They haven't tried to sweep anything under the rug. Every detail of the original is celebrated.
     
  36. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo User

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    Does he get his top off is all I care about really, fuck his PERSONALITY. If I want personality I'll go to YUFFIE.
     
  37. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    I still bet BOTTOM DOLLAR that Cait Sith will be sans Moogle.
     
  38. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    Cait Sith was the most rubbish character. That Limit Break was just ever so DODGY.
     
  39. Cloud

    Cloud Heck

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    I wonder how much of a flash-forward will accompany his ominous comment about losing something dear...
     
  40. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    I'm still annoyed as FUCK that they used that awful tune for Wall Market, instead of going for the original. The remaster is a SLEAZY reggae number :disco:

     

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