How do you solve a problem like antisemitism in the Labour party?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Indie

    Indie Great Tits

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    Except of being aware that it's a Shakespeare character
     
  2. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    I admittedly grew up in an environment with pretty much no Jewish culture to speak of, but antisemitism of that nature feels weirdly middle class to me. Like, the kids who bullied me for being gay at school certainly weren't yelling Hamlet quotes at me.
     
  3. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    We had a lot of Jewish pupils at school, to the point where they had their own assembly. When we did The Merchant Of Venice in 3rd year, there were Shylock jokes a-plenty but there were of at the level of what passes for wit and humour amongst 13 and 14 year old Glaswegians i.e. "I'll take a slice out your arse, ya prick" etc. However, ANYONE who deemed stingy was hit with the "three thousand ducets" line, regardless of their religion so it wasn't anti-Semitism. The character being Jewish wasn't what was used for humour, it was anyone who was being a skinflint.
     
  4. Sheena

    Sheena MAKE IT QUICK, LUCILLE!

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    It's vaguely amusing me that this week's big news has been about SHYLOCK and WATSON
     
  5. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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  6. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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  7. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    I'll tell you what, Rachel Riley has fucked up big-style with that t-shirt. Of all the images to doctor, the one of Corbyn being arrested at an anti-apartheid protest was not the one if you're wanting to paint him as a racist.

    This is the point at which the anti-Corbyn stuff goes too far and people will actually start to disbelieve the whole thing.
     
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  8. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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    She is a fucking twat. Bring back Carol Vord..... oh wait.
     
  9. Indie

    Indie Great Tits

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  10. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo User

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    Maybe all mathematicians are right wing lunatics in the making Kate :side-eye:
     
  11. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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  12. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    Kate is the anti-Vorderman. Which means that, if they ever shake hands, the entire universe will explode.

    Good.
     
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  13. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam mess

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    I look at Rachel Riley photoshopping out anti-apartheid messaging and comparing a Northern brass band to the KKK for playing a Jewish song, David Baddiel suggesting the way Jeremy Corbyn pronounced the Germanic name of a dead paedophile is an anti-semitic dog-whistle, Tracey Ann Oberman calling Jeremy Corbyn a stalker for going to the café of a theatre in his constituency, and at somebody claiming offering A Christmas Carol to Boris Johnson was antisemitic because another Dickens book was antisemitic and I can't help but think that this has all gone a bit... weird.
     
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  14. COB

    COB Pop it in here thanks

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    I've always felt that the accusations thrown at Corbyn himself have been in bad faith from day one.

    EDIT: I should clarify that I'm not denying there are clearly issues with individual members, and one incident is too many.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  15. ameraal

    ameraal la loi de murphy

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    Nearly one in four, 24.6%, of Europeans holds strongly anti-Semitic views, according to a poll by a Jewish anti-hate organization released Thursday.

    Among European Muslims in Western Europe, the incidence of such views was almost three times higher than in the general population, as defined by the Anti-Defamation League’s study.

    A significant proportion of those surveyed agreed with statements that said Jews were more loyal to Israel than to their own country, Jews talked too much about the Holocaust, and Jews had too much power in business and finance. The study comprises an index of 11 questions that are used to identify anti-Semitic attitudes.

    The study surveyed over 9,000 people in 18 countries in Europe, Canada, South Africa, Argentina and Brazil between April and June this year.

    full article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/one-in-four-europeans-holds-anti-semitic-views-survey-shows-11574339097
     
  16. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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  17. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Maureen Lipman has brought back Beattie to slate Jeremy Corbyn. He really has got very very weird.

     
  18. Jark

    Jark apocalypse

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    :D! post of the week tbqh
     
  19. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    It's almost as if people are trying to ramp it up to much more a thing than it really is.

    OH.
     
  20. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    NB - I, of course, agree that one incident is too many. But this has just gone wild now.
     
  21. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    I suspect we may be in a chicken/egg scenario where Jewish paranoia about Corbyn is fuelling anti-Jewish feeling among his hardcore supporters and vice versa.

    I don't think it's at all healthy to just conclude that the Jews who call out Labour are all lying or being manipulated. There clearly isn't smoke without fire. But it does also seem quite... odd.

    Do we have any British Jewish Moopers, by the way?
     
  22. jivafox

    jivafox chalamet & chill

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    “Lifelong Labour Supporter” Maureen Lipman dropped her lifelong support for Labour in 2015 as well. :D
     
  23. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Well to be fair, that is when Corbyn got in...
     
  24. jivafox

    jivafox chalamet & chill

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    Her reason back then was because Ed recognised Palestine.
     
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  25. Indie

    Indie Great Tits

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    Much like people's sexual orientations, gender or skin colour, I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck if people are Jewish or otherwise.

    On that basis I do find myself tremendously baffled by this.
     
  26. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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    Same. Until recently I kind of assumed anti-semitism was a Hitler thing and just didn't exist anymore, because why would anyone have a problem with Jewish people*? I can't even tell people are Jewish unless they've got a hat on. Like most people I expect.

    *aside from disapproving of the state of Israel, which is a whole other story of course and a big part of all this KERFUFFLE
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  27. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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    I mean this is just insane. Who puts these ideas in people's heads?
     
  28. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    Her reason now is that she's a secret Tory and just can't hide it anymore.
     
  29. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Conspiracy theories about Jews secretly running the world are some of the oldest in the book. I don't delve into that side of the internet at all but I've always been dimly aware of it.

    The thing is of course that there are a lot of very high profile Jewish people influencing business and politics at the highest levels, in a way that I don't think other minorities such as black and muslim people remotely approach in the white Western world. And the fact that Israel is such a problematic but highly influential state definitely plays into that. Obviously #NotAllJews, but the idea of the Jewish people having an absolute right to statehood in Israel - and that right being under constant threat of oppression - is SO deeply ingrained into the culture, understandably so when you look at the history. To the point where, yes, anybody who is vocally critical of the state of Israel is going to get enormous blowback from people who equate that country's sovereignty with the very core of their identity.

    It's such a messy situation, and quite literally a tale as old as time.
     
  30. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    Who would have thought that taking a chunk out of another country at the end of World War II would have returned to bite everyone on the ares?
     
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  31. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    I lived in Prestwich for years, it has largest Jewish community in the UK outside of London. I'm practically a rabbi.
     
  32. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

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    Well to be fair, it wasn't as if they just span the globe and put a random pin on the map as to where to put them. I don't think any side comes out of it well at all.
     
  33. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

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    The evidence above does suggest that this is getting wildly out of control.

    A friend of mine was one of the whistleblowers who came out re: antisemitism in the party. From her account, there is very clearly an issue but it’s not necessarily that Corbyn himself is antisemitic. The issue is that others in Labour are and he and the party don’t deal with it properly.
     
  34. octophone

    octophone Techno Poo

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    When I was at school, the three major Jewish communities were in Glasgow, Manchester and London. There was a lot of crossover between them too - I had a uni friend who was from Manchester and knew half of the Jewish people I'd been at school with. The communities looked after each other, or at least that section did - people from one of those communities would go and study or work in one of the other and never be short of somewhere to go. It was enviable in many respects, an extended family.
     
  35. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Is Rachel Stevens Jewish? Why did I have that idea in my head?
     
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  36. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

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    Wikipedia says yes.
     
  37. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    I just remember someone saying she was a Jewess and wondering if it was PC, and if not why not because it sounds amazing (and must be if Rach is one)
     
  38. Ellie

    Ellie Super talented triple threat

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    Yes here technically on my mother’s side as she’s Israeli born and on her mother’s side (British father).
     
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  39. COB

    COB Pop it in here thanks

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    Update:

    Really quite shitty behaviour from some party staff here, as you'll see in the follow-ups to that tweet (including quite blatant misogyny towards one particular individual). This really makes it sound like there was some sort of concerted effort to sabotage Labour's effort to deal with these complaints in order to make Corbyn look even worse... it's almost like these people didn't actually care about antisemitism and were just weaponising it against someone they didn't want anywhere near power :side-eye:
     
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  40. Jark

    Jark apocalypse

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    :D
     
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