How do you solve a problem like antisemitism in the Labour party?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Come on. Surely even you have to acknowledge that the ’apology’ that got him suspended in the first place was a train wreck?
     
  2. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I miss Jeremy Corbyn tags.
     
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  3. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    "even you"? :manson: He probably could have worded the most recent one better, but framing the issue as something he hadn't apologised for is extremely disingenuous. Here he is apologising last year, and here's one from 2018. I'm certain I could find more than those if I kept looking, too.
     
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  4. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I was aware it a small bunch and the Tories made it feel much bigger, but I never felt he appeared to deal with it especially well. But that was his problem as a leader, he never felt especially reactive as a party leader. He should have publicly been all over it.
     
  5. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    And I followed him on all social media, and have proceeded with caution when it comes to the modern media for many years. He still appeared to wash his hands of the problem. He should have been stamping it out with his sandals.
     
  6. octophone

    octophone The Electrocutioner

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    He could have dealt with it immaculately and it wouldn't have been enough for the right wing press; he'd still have been getting beaten with the stick until he was dead.

    But no, he didn't deal with it well. His "anti-Israeli government is not anti-semitism" line wasn't good enough when there was actual anti-semitism going on.
     
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  7. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    You’re really using the 2019 Schofield interview as an example? :D That was a complete disaster too!

    At the end of the day, it’s easy enough to say pretty words when you’re in power. The report was pretty damning about the extent to which he actually did anything about it.

    Once he was out and the extent of his failures came to light, extending some humility and contrition was literally all he needed to do - and he couldn’t without couching it in defensive, self-pitying whataboutery. It’s pathetic.

    But hey ho, back to the back benches he goes :emoji_wave:
     
  8. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo User

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    Why is this topic still open? I thought antisemitism in the Labour party had VANISHED now that Keir Starmer was in charge. Or maybe not and it's just not POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT to hammer on about it anymore.

    OOPS

    *gets expelled from the Labour party*
     
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  9. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo User

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    Where's the MORAL OUTRAGE, the FRONT-PAGE GUARDIAN NEWS, the BBC LEADING STORIES and the FIVE-PAGE MOOPY TOPIC on this?



    Oh sorry let me check the HIERARCHY OF RACISMS in the RELEVANCY CHART... nope, WE DON'T CARE.
     
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  10. Soldi

    Soldi THUNDER AND GLORIA!

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    Is there a CONSERVATIVE PARTY ISLAMOPHOBIA topic?
     
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  11. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    I sincerely don’t wish to be dismissive of this, because Islamophobia is an absolute disease in this country and some kind of reckoning is long overdue across the board.

    But this ’Gotcha!’ style of ”How dare you get fired up about THIS when you haven’t been equally vocal about THAT?!” discourse is really unhelpful, IMO.

    Again, not to dismiss it, but I’d wager that one reason (of many) why it hasn’t been quite as much of a talking point lately is that -unlike Pillarboxes Johnson - I’m not aware of any serious allegations that Islamophobia in Labour is being fermented and institutionalised from the top down.
     
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  12. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Can't believe we don't have a five page topic on something that was tweeted three days ago and wasn't brought to our attention.

    Its not like we've never talked about Islamaphobia before and we're generally a progressive forum.

    Maybe someone could pop up a topic about it if they want to talk about it, rather than bizarrely blaming the WHOLE FORUM, including themselves for daring to not be involved with every single issue at once.
     
  13. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    tldr: someone's tired.
     
  14. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    You claimed he hadn't acknowledged the problem and apologised, I showed that he had done so more than once while he was leader. I'm sure you're aware that there are people opposed to him throughout this whole debacle who were adamant that he had never apologised, and have used that as evidence of his alleged personal antisemitism - I've seen folk (seemingly) sincerely make that claim on Twitter and elsewhere as recently as this week. I think that's a particularly unfair misrepresentation, hence why I feel it's important to correct it.
     
  15. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    What I do agree with is the Labour Party are fucking shit whoever leads.

    VOTE GREEN!
     
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  16. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    You know, I think I agree with you - I need to look into the Scottish Greens I think. My only other hope is that when the SNP inevitably splits apart after independence, that the left-wing party that emerges from that is at least somewhat decent :(
     
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  17. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    Knowing my luck it's where all the SNP TERFs will decide to go :eyes:
     
  18. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I say that, but I've voted Labour the last few elections. I'm a paid up member of the Green Party. If I lived a few hundred feet away I'd have a Green councillor (Seb Flyte :disco:) and I was lucky enough to be involved in voting Caroline Lucas in, in Brighton. They don't stand in my council ward, I know the 2017 Labour candidate for MP (he's a good guy) and 2019 was a painful decision to go Labour. I wish the Greens had a better chance of more seats.

    Scotland has a few Green MSPs right?
     
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  19. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    There are six Green MSPs, which is pretty good for a small party. They also seem to get a bigger profile than they otherwise would by being the only other 'major' party that supports Scottish independence.
     
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  20. Soldi

    Soldi THUNDER AND GLORIA!

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    I’ve grown a bit sick of them as well and have started thinking of switching my allegiance to green :)
     
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  21. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

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    I'll 100% vote green when MEP MAGID MAGID stands.
     
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  22. Soldi

    Soldi THUNDER AND GLORIA!

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    Best Mayor or Sheffield EVER
     
  23. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam Not Lana Del Rey

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    My only issue with the Green Party (and it's not a big issue. I've voted for them before. I pretty much exist with one foot in Labour and one foot in the Green Party) is that sometimes their stances seem to come more from a place of wanting to appeal to NIMBYism than what's actually best for the environment. Their opposition to HS2 for example is a bit nonsensical to me.
     
  24. ZenGiraffe

    ZenGiraffe Let me wash your back for you.

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    They also are part of the confidence and supply arrangement that forms our government, and can and have used this to draw concessions from the SNP. I'll be sad to see them lose that next election if SNP do get the majority they are predicted to achieve.
     
  25. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo User

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    I'm not trying to GOTCHA! you in particular (or anyone else in the gay chat lounge, INCIDENTALLY). I'm also not indifferent to any genuine complaints or experiences of antisemitism. But my point is that the antisemitism complaints WERE weaponised for political capital against Corbyn and WERE blown out of proportion when you look at the coverage they were given for MONTHS, nay YEARS compared to the actual numbers (and I'm going to borrow your own expression here and say that yes, one complaint is one complaint too many but NOT TO DISMISS THEM but they amounted to LESS THAN 0,1% of the total Labour party membership).

    That this amount of political capital was spent (from within the Labour party) and this amount of coverage was given to the issue when both politicians and the media now remain silent after the publication of the Labour Muslim report just makes it obvious to me that there were FURTHER MOTIVATIONS in pursuing this against Corbyn under the guise of RaCiSm Is BaD!!!!1 because clearly SOME RACISM is WORSE than other.
     
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  26. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    I’m not denying that it was weaponised. That much is obvious. But if Corbyn had any actual sense as a politician he’d realise that was a complete losing battle to fight and the only solution was to make real, meaningful moves to stamp it out wholesale.

    As I’ve said multiple times in this thread, I don’t think Corbyn personally wakes up every day with a burning hatred of Jews. He’s just fucking stupid - and in recent months he’s also blinkered, embittered and self-pitying to boot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
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  27. Nancy

    Nancy CAR CLAMP CLUB

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    YES!
     
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  28. octophone

    octophone The Electrocutioner

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    Oh, don't say THAT! I'm looking at Green/Green for 2021 at the moment because of the SNPs refusal to deal with their TERF problem.
     
  29. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Sir Keir isn’t restoring the whip :o.

    “Jeremy Corbyn’s actions in response to the EHRC report undermined and set back our work in restoring trust and confidence in the Labour party’s ability to tackle antisemitism”

    “In those circumstances, I have taken the decision not to restore the whip to Jeremy Corbyn. I will keep this situation under review.”

    “The disciplinary process does not have the confidence of the Jewish community. That became clear once again yesterday.

    “It is the task of my leadership to fix what I have inherited. That is what I am resolute in doing and I have asked for an independent process to be established as soon as possible”.
     
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  30. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam Not Lana Del Rey

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    This seems like a bit of a MIS-STEP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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  31. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    Very odd! More cynical people than me will say this might indicate that some people within Labour were more concerned with using the issue of antisemitism to try and oust Corbyn than with actually trying to tackle antisemitism, but I'm sure it's just some sort of admin error.
     
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  32. Iguana

    Iguana To take your word, I had to steal it

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    I fear (as a Jewish person) that any attempt to take affirmative action against JC will only cause antisemitic sentiment to fester, feeding into the narrative that Jews are trying to "take control". It's like making a martyr and it's not really a situation where anyone can win.
     
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  33. Iguana

    Iguana To take your word, I had to steal it

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    I think that's a slippery slope when there exists an independent ECHR report that is damning about the way that LOTO staff interfered with certain complaints, and people speaking out against such interference are tarred as being politically opportunistic. Maybe there's some of that, maybe not - I'd rather people were allowed to speak out about it rather than being bullied into silence.
     
  34. COB

    COB jumped up little prick

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    I agree, people shouldn't be bullied into silence.
     
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  35. RJN

    RJN User

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    I mean this sincerely, but what exactly are the claims of anti-semitism in Labour. I've been trying to Google it, but all I can find is that Corbin and others have been accused of anti-semitism and various levels of cover-ups? Did he (or anyone else prominent) say anything specifically anti-semitic?
     
  36. RJN

    RJN User

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    Re-reading my post, I hope it didn't come off as anti-semitic itself. I am Jewish, and since I presumably would be voting Labour if I was to somehow vote in UK elections, and this does seem to be effecting Jewish people and others, I find this kind of interesting/troubling.
     
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  37. Jark

    Jark I... know... how bad you want this

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    @RJN you can read the report itself here.

    These two Guardian articles (one and two) offer a brief overview of the situation and fallout.

    essentially Corbyn himself is not accused of making anti-semitic comments but of failing to adequately address complaints of anti-semitic things happening within the party, which in turn lead to relatively unsubstantiated accusations that he might sympathise with anti-semites.
     
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  38. Iguana

    Iguana To take your word, I had to steal it

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    If you have a spare hour (!), my friend Sara, who's a bit of a Jewish (former) Labour Twitter darling, wrote this piece which is pretty thorough:
     
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  39. Iguana

    Iguana To take your word, I had to steal it

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    I think you might have doubled our Jewish contingent with this reveal!
     
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  40. RJN

    RJN User

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    @Jark and @Iguana Thank you both! This is something I've been wondering about for a while, and it can be harder (for me at least) to know what sources are legitimate in news that I don't know as much about
     

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