Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Feb 20, 2014.
Death toll mounting, sanctions placed... Where the fuck is this heading?
Whoa, what's the context behind this?
From what I gather Russia is feeding the Ukrainian government billions of $$$ to move closer to Russia than Europe. The majority of the the Ukraine are like FUCK THIS WE'RE GONNA BURN SOME SHIT WE HATE RUSSIA.
You and the rest of the world.
Alas the US are getting involved with an anti-Russian stance. It's not a tasty situation and it's seemingly getting more and more mental in central Kiev.
Oh and that square is going to need a major SPRING CLEAN.
FUCKING HELL at that picture
Is the cease fire officially over after today?
Check this out for the full scale of that square. Now THAT is ANGER. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...e-square-ukraine_n_4823917.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
The cease fire happened and lasted about three hours.
I was just there last Monday, and my driver told me that "everything is calm again". Obviously that was wishful thinking.
The USA is just so quick to whip out sanctions against the government's violence against the protests which is fair enough, but completely ignore the violence used by the rioters themselves. How convenient for them.
Oh please. A democratic government killing its own citizens, regardless of whether the protests are violent or not, is totally fucking unacceptable. That's what due process is for.
I know I know and it's all what they should do. But there's always a feeling that they're only doing it for their benefit.
*post reserved for an irrelevant post about Americans, oil and/or Tony Blair*
Snipers popping headshots against people hiding behind plywood?! I know you work behind a till but at least have a basic grasp on decency.
Its an incredibly delicate situation. On the one hand you do have a very active section of the public that are pro Europe but theres vast swathes of the country that speak Russian to the East. If it were to continue and to decend into some sort of civil war then its really going to be a war of East vs West played out in the country. The government are this morning claiming a deal has been worked out yet the French foreign minister whos been involved in the talks has tweeted theres still lots of negotiations ahead.
Parliament have called for the use of weapons against protesters to be banned which is a start but this isn't over.
God! The Russians are major cunts.
I think thats the case, on the face of it, they are pumping money into the current Ukraine government to fund this democratic uprising, an they don't seem very ashamed of that. Trying to spin the rhetoric that the protesters are militant terrorists and pin hypocrisy on the West is just a cheap shot
I believe that this will end up with the pro-Russian areas being absorbed back into Russia proper, with a smaller pro-European/pro-independence Ukraine breaking away. Of course, this is what Russia has wanted all along, and it will do everything it can to strangle the Ukraine.
Lviv to the far west has already declared independence. I thnk you're right, I can see the country breaking up.
Putin's ultimate goal has always been to create the Eurasian Union, a kind of successor state to the USSR, composed of Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and the Russian-speaking regions of the Ukraine. This is playing out very nicely for him.
The western part of Ukraine never was part of The USSR until the Second World War, was it? Before that it was part of Poland or Austria-Hungary. Can't quite remember but it's understandable the huge division between people's views on Europe from the East to the West. It probably would be better for the western part to break away.
Only problem is the Eastern part is where the sea is and the western part would lose a lot of money and become landlocked.
Western Belarus and Ukraine used to be part of Poland (this is where my grandparents were born). This area was always very mixed (Poles, White Russians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians). After the partition of Poland in 1939, it was subsumed into the USSR. When Poland's borders were re-established after the war, they were moved West so Moscow retained control of the area.
That is quite correct. I think maybe they should split up the country; call the western part Ruthenia ( or Red Russia the way it was called before ) and allow it into the EU, and let Russia have the east. It will never happen though.
OMG are you Jewish? I knew it!
My Grandfather was a Pole born in the Ukraine, as it was... It's a MUDDY AREA.
The bane of us Eastern Europeans descendants.
That sounded anti-Semitic. I just hate my nose.
The thing is the Ukrainians and White Russians were no happier under the Poles. My grandfather's father was an official charged with administering the area, but the peasants who lived in the area were Ukrainian. When Poland was partitioned, apparently things got very vicious as the peasants took their opportunity to exact revenge on their former occupiers...
These are like the most interesting parts of Europe! I wish my ancestors were from there too.
The nose is the best part of it!
The only Jewish thing about Lou's looks though is his ginger hair.
I'm half Irish as well though babe (although no ginger on that side) so who knows?
Which part is Kyiv in?
That's the problem, isn't it? It won't be an easy divorce: it's as if London were Carlisle, and populated by as many Scots as English. In my experience, Kyiv is like Brussels, one of those weird islands where two cultures collide. Everyone speaks Ukrainian there, but everyone does business in Russian.
Being ginger is apparently more common among Ashkenazi Jews than the Irish.
I think we're seeing a significant moment in post-Soviet history at the moment. The trend in Russia and Russian-aligned states is back towards totalitarianism, and - not to be a pessimistic - but I believe we're heading back into another Cold War-esque scenario. Not to the same extent, obviously, because Russia and the West's financial interests are now too closely intertwined, but there will be a lot more political brinkmanship on all kinds of issues from now on, and unfortunately for places like Ukraine, Georgia, etc. they will be the battlegrounds.
That's what it's all about isn't it? The Ukrainian situation is a small part of a much bigger picture. I'm really interested to see how the Americans play their hand. Because on one hand they have their financial ties with Russia but at the same time they could jump ship and go for Eastern European resources.
The faster the West can develop truly sustainable alternative energy sources the better so they can cut off the dependence they have on Russia.
Slightly OT, I have always been pleasantly surprised by my times in Ukraine - the people there are much more polite, friendly and intelligent than your average Russian. I would hate to see them dragged back into the cave of prejudice and kleptocracy that the Russians have made for themselves.
Polish shale oil is apparently the answer.
You honestly only heard about this yesterday?
Can anyone recommend a good book about Russia and the formation and subsequent disintegration of the Soviet Union? It's a fascinating part of history and my knowledge of it is quite shamefully vague.
I'm reading one about The Balkans from 1800-2012 at the moment. It's basically 200 years of peasant farmers being shit on by greater powers on both sides.
This morning's breaking news seems fantastically good.
An early presidential election and constitutional changes - I don't quite understand why he's yielded. Am I missing something?