Lady Gaga - Perfect Illusion (OUT NOW)

Discussion in 'Lady Gaga' started by Penelope, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    I'm late to the party, but this is pretty crap right? Is it meant for Radio 2?
     
  2. cwej

    cwej User

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    She literally cannot win...

    People complaining that it's too basic - but every time she releases something that's 'out there' she gets complaints that it's too self-indulgent
    People complaining that it's not radio friendly enough - others saying it's totally commercial.
    People complaining that it's too rocky - others saying they can't hear rock in it at all and that it sounds too much like she hasn't made any progress....

    Needless to say I've had it on REPEAT.


    And for the record:

    01. Applause
    02. Perfect Illusion
    03. Bad Romance
    04. Just Dance
    05. Born This Way

    And I couldn't give a fuck. :D
     
  3. Lucille

    Lucille User

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    IN CONCLUSION I LOVE the first minute!!! There's a good song in there SOMEWHERE. Who can deny the fabulousness of "I still feel the blow, but at least now I know it wasn't LAAAAAAARVE'. If only it had more to offer, but people say that about me ASWELL SO.
     
  4. cwej

    cwej User

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  5. Marilyn

    Marilyn User

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    The hype that surrounded her first couple of years was really the worst thing that could have happened to poor Gags. She would have been so much better as a Robyn-type half-star who can do what they want and is not expected to have an earth-shattering success with every release

    As cwej just said, too commercial and she's selling out, not commercial enough and she's being too weird. It doesn't help that social media stan wars seemed to really become a thing around the time she appeared
     
  6. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Yes, we're all being contrary for the sake of it and this is just as good as the singles from the first two albums. Especially Bad Romance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  7. cwej

    cwej User

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    I'm not saying that you're all being contrary for the sake of it. But I do think our predispositions change our view of the song - I was really excited it, and ended up loving it. Most people were expecting something shit, and have decided this is something shit.

    i do not understand the dislike of Applause at all - I genuinely think it's brilliant pop writing.
     
  8. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    But internet gays are a relative minority. The general public is what matters, and Applause just didn't connect. That's not about a predisposition towards disliking something, that's just a very fundamental failure of songwriting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  9. cwej

    cwej User

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    I wasn't aware that commercial success = brilliant pop writing.

    A song not connecting is not 'a fundamental failure of songwriting' - the target audience (and that's not the cynical negativity of Moopy incidentally) still lapped up Applause.
     
  10. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    Of course it bloody is! She's not Joni Mitchell. What purpose does Applause serve if it isn't a big hit? It had one job, and it failed. Simple as.
     
  11. KindaCool

    KindaCool KayCee

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    Well it still reached the #4 spot on the Hot100 and was played a lot at nightclubs. Does that not count as a hit?
     
  12. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    Applause is hardly the first example I'd think of for a track designed to get a hit and nothing else.

    It was her infinitely more tongue-in-cheek Human Nature, and I think it did a tremendous job of it. But then, as topics go it couldn't be more precision designed to force an opinion of it based on your prior opinion of Gaga.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  13. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    It did nothing to advance her sound, it had no emotional content, no message. It can't be compared to, say, Secret or Frozen by Madonna, or Slave 4 U by Britney. It was Gaga by numbers, and it came at a point in her career when she needed it to be a global #1, and it wasn't. It's pretty cut and dried for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  14. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    What prior track in Gaga's catalogue did Applause sound remotely like?!

    And I'd say it's pretty STARK OBVIOUS what the message was! The whole thing's a beginning to end pisstake of the people who insisted she was nothing but a popularity desperado!

    I'd agree it was absolutely a wrong and self-indulgent choice for a lead single (or even a single full stop), but there really isn't much you can point to to say it had NO MEANING and wasn't a new sound for her!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  15. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    How was it musically any different to Judas, Bad Romance, Poker Face etc?! It was absolute Gaga by numbers.

    "I live for the applause-applause-applause"
    "Judas-Ju-da-das, Ga Ga Ooh la la"
    "My poker face my po-po-ker-face"

    It was the ultimate eye-roll moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  16. Daniel

    Daniel User

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    What metrics are you using to even say Applause failed to connect outside internet gays?

    - It spent 14 straight weeks in the Top 10 of both US iTunes and Billboard and became her biggest radio hit in America despite some initial resistance.

    - It sold around 4 million digital copies WW.

    - It has over 100 million streams on Spotify and 200 million views on Youtube.

    How is this a fundamental failure of writing when she wrote a pop song topline that many people clearly found catchy?
     
  17. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    * It is objectively far from her biggest radio hit in America.

    * It had, by 2013 standards, a very average chart run in most territories.

    * How many WW copies did Bad Romance, Poker Face, Just Dance, Paparazzi, Telephone etc. sell?

    * See above. She was still a global superstar in 2013. Of course you can pull out decent stats. But the abject failure of the album says it all. It did nothing to arrest her overall commercial decline.
     
  18. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    One of the hooks was based on repetition so all of a sudden it's musically identical? :D By that token are all MAX MARTIN tracks that do that too musically identical?!

    Musically it had SHIT ALL in common with Poker Face, Judas et al other than that, yes, it used repetition as a hook. Guess pretty much every song that's used la as a hook isn't bringing anything new to the table then!
     
  19. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    Oh come on! Production wise it was utterly SAME OLD SAME OLD, at a point in her career when she desperately needed to show some versatility. Which is, incidentally, the exact same problem that Perfect Illusion has.

    Yes, some artists (P!nk, Kelly Clarkson) can get away with repeating the same musical beats. But Gaga clearly isn't one of them. Maybe because she's a victim of her own early success, but nobody ever said life was fair.
     
  20. Daniel

    Daniel User

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    VoR your same old, same old comment makes sense because you obviously dislike her fundamentally as a singer-songwriter, and that's fine, but the only thing linking Bad Romance to Applause to Perfect Illusion is that it's an unmistakable Gaga topline. Production wise they are idiosyncratic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  21. Penelope

    Penelope AND SHAVE OUR EYEBROWS

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    QUITE! I literally have no idea why you're trying to argue that point VoR - just play the INSTRUMENTALS BACK TO BACK!
     
  22. Tramell

    Tramell Amen Fashion

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    I smell some BAD FAITH (or an ear defect??) here...

    Of course she DOES have hits that use a similar pattern (Just Dance, Poker Face, Bad Romance), but Applause certainly ISN'T one of them. It's definitely a bit of a UFO in her catalogue, like Paparazzi also is.
     
  23. Tramell

    Tramell Amen Fashion

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    Anyway, loads of positive reviews, even NME loves it (they tore her to shreds during Artpop).
     
  24. Ag

    Ag User

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    I've had better shits than Applause. End of.
     
  25. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

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    What a depressing attitude.

    I've said it before about Gaga, and I'll say it again. She ultimately took a massive risk releasing Born This Way (the song) and I'm prepared to bet it was very much against the wishes of her label. She was the biggest star in the world and she was prepared to take a commercial risk to make a very bold statement that might have seemed a bit trite in the progressive safety of the UK, but was a beacon of hope for lots of young gay and transgender people around the world.

    Applause was not a FAILURE OF SONGWRITING because it wasn't another Bad Romance style behemoth commercially. It's an amazing, relentless, interesting pop song and it was still a big hit. She was pretty much insufferable at the time, even to a fan as big as me, and that had a huge impact on her commercial success.

    Perfect Illusion, and the way she's behaving now, show elements of her reining it in a bit without losing sight of what she actually is as an artist. Lots of people have moved on from 2009. Who cares? Stop droning on about it. If she wanted another Bad Romance, she'd have made an album solely with Red One.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  26. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

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    DP'd by 2 highway unicorns
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  27. Tramell

    Tramell Amen Fashion

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    Solid debut on Spotify for a niche artist who has no selling-power anymore :smoke:

    US
    #21. Perfect Illusion - 594,798 streams

    WW
    #24. Perfect Illusion - 1,936,318 streams

    ("Rise" and "Make Me..." didn't debut inside top 40 in US)
     
  28. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

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    Slay Spotify, Gaga! :disco:
     
  29. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    #32 on Spotify UK
     
  30. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

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    I finally bothered to listen to this and while it doesn't sound as Stevie Nickish as The Edge Of Glory, it would definitely fit on Rock A Litttle. Sadly it doesn't reach the heights of I Can't Wait.
     
  31. Ag

    Ag User

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    Rise and Make Me weren't hits. Poor comparison. What about Drake or Bieber?
     
  32. VoR

    VoR Forever in our hearts #Justice4Barb

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    Wow, who knew I still had this much belligerence in me? I guess I just miss having strong opinions about current pop stars. At this point in my life I just don't have it in me to take a combatitive position on Ariana Grande.

    As you might gather from the time of posting, I was pretty drunk so reading back I wasn't entirely fair to Applause there. I still don't think it broke any new ground for her though, and it certainly hasn't lingered in the public consciousness in the way her other lead singles did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  33. Tramell

    Tramell Amen Fashion

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    Britney and KP are also famous female popstars who released a brand new song recently after a long hiatus, comparison still valid.
     
  34. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    Down to #2 on iTunes UK.
     
  35. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

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    Up to 9 on Apple Music.
     
  36. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    Does apple music update throughout the day like iTunes, or just daily like Spotify?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  37. Halli

    Halli sippin' champagne from a paper cup

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    Applause: Failure of Songwriting is cracking me up :D

    Did we see she did a surprise perf of the single at Moth nightclub last night? It looked..an experience.
     
  38. ameraal

    ameraal is this too much?

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    day 2: this is actually getting worse. at this point i would say it's absolutely atrocious. i can't believe they haven't publicly scrapped the whole album due to this debacle of a lead single.

    for anyone interested, the rest of the bulgarian itunes chart includes:

    skyfall by adele at #3
    happy by pharrell at #4
    two more from adele
    impossible by james arthur #7
    ai se eu te pego! by michel teló
     
  39. Suedey

    Suedey I'm not gonna be IGNORED

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    Never knowingly over the top. Ladies and gentlemen, it's ameraal! :disco:
     
  40. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    :D

    :(


    :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016

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