Let's all laugh at PROFOUND DICKHEAD David Cameron

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by funky, Aug 6, 2010.

  1. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    I am actually agog at this plan to strip housing benefit for the under 25s.

    What fucking PLANET are these people on? Seriously.
     
  2. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,390
    you'd think they are the ones who need it the most
     
  3. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    Oh I know, let's take away their jobs and then force them onto the streets.

    NICE ONE CAM THE MAN.
     
  4. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    I swear to God, if he wins the next election...
     
  5. Suomi

    Suomi User

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    47,720
    i know, i just can't believe it

    How good is it gonna look on a 26 year old's CV to see they've spent the first 25 years of their life living with their parents in their crappy hometowns, places that have much worse employment opportunities than the bigger cities
     
  6. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    Even that is assuming that they even have a relationship with their families that allows them to stay with their parents. MANY DON'T.

    The sheer ARROGANCE of assuming that everyone under 25 is only on benefits out of their own fecklessness absolutely blows my mind.
     
  7. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,390
    Danish politics is very dramatic at the moment because of the tax reform. Enhedslisten might pull the plug on the government, forcing them to call an election come autumn :disco:
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  8. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,801
    Location:
    European Union
    It sounds like an idea worth exploring to me.

    I'm surprised to learn that you can be entitled to receive housing benefit if there's absolutely nothing stopping you from living comfortably with parents.

    However I can't see how 'comfortably' could be accessed fairly though. Probably too much bother than its worth.
     
  9. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,559
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    If you're living in rented accomodation already you may be contractually obliged not to break the tenancy. What should someone do then? Forgo the £1000 deposit and move back home for the unknown number of months you'll be unemployed?
     
  10. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    Yeah, I agree. In principle, I think it's kind of good to focus on parental responsibility where possible but I really don't see how you can assess where it is possible and where it is not.

    I don't really get the point about it looking bad on your CV to stay in the area you grew up. I think that's very snobby. Not everyone wants to go to the city and work in media, y'know. And if you want to do that, do it when you can afford to do it. It's all great in theory to give housing benefit to people who are trying to further their careers but if we can't afford to do it, we can't afford to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  11. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    There's always a break clause in tenancy agreements isn't there? Two months notice?
     
  12. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,559
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    Not always. My last one allowed a break only after six months.
     
  13. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    Hmm, yeah, that's problematic then.

    The private rental market in the UK is completely out of control anyway. I don't understand why that's not more of a hot topic at the moment when it's so hard for first time buyers. It's INSANELY expensive to rent in comparison to buying.
     
  14. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,801
    Location:
    European Union
    A period of grace following becoming unemployed would need to be one of the safe-guards.
     
  15. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    The problem with the welfare state is that everything that is currently in place SHOULD be in place, if not more, but the people that abuse the system fuck it up for those that genuinely need short or long term help for legitimate reasons.
     
  16. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    I think the number of people a policy like this would impact in the way that it is intended to would be statistically negligible. It would essentially make being unemployed an untenable position, meaning more people turning to desperate means to make the money they need just to make rent, and those that fail ending up on the street. Youth homelessness would skyrocket.

    Tory policy basically boils down to "If you are rich we will do everything we can to accommodate you and turn a blind eye to your misdemeanours because we don't want you to leave (and you're lining our pockets). If you're poor, we're going to take as much away from you as we can get away with and trust in the fact that you're too powerless/dependent/disenfranchised to do anything about it."
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  17. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,099
  18. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    Being poor is not the beginning, the middle an the end.

    Historically, I agree that's what the Tories have perpetuated but I think this particular policy seems relatively sensible to me. One of the biggest challenges is breaking the cycle of each generation of a family depending on the state without even trying to support themselves first. I think this is a good way to try and change that.

    Plenty of (relatively) wealthy kids are living at home well into their twenties because they're priced out ifthe private rental market or can't afford to buy somewhere. That's life, unfortunately.
     
  19. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    It will be the more policies like this one make social mobility impossible.

    I can understand where you're coming from but I just think they're shooting for the wrong target, and blindly too. It's not about enjoying the privilige of renting or buying a home in your twenties, or even about benefit fraudsters sitting on housing benefit for years on end. It's about recent graduates, people growing up in areas where there are no jobs, people who live away from their families and are made redundant, people who don't have families or are estranged from them. All of these people are going to get hit, and the proportion of actual career benefit frauds who will be forced to become profitable members of society will be absolutely NEGLIGIBLE by comparison - not least because it'll be harder than ever for them to get a job in the first place.

    It's just throwing people down deeper and deeper holes and pulling away the ladders.
     
  20. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    69,338
    Location:
    loony left
    Well I think it's a SHIT idea to start actively encouraging grown adults to stay at home with mummy and daddy instead of making their own way in the world. Fine if that's what everyone concerned wants, but what if it's not? Has anyone thought about how the parents might feel about this? Perhaps they might want to downsize their family home and start enjoying their freedom instead of having to continue to subsidise their offspring?
     
  21. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    So the state should subsidise their offspring instead? Why?

    I honestly do get that this is not ideal, but I do think that families supporting each other where possible is a more sustainable model.

    There is not endless money. Unless taxes are raised massively which I'm not opposed to in principle, but it's not goin to happen.
     
  22. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,559
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    I do agree with this and many people agree also. I'm not sure why nothing has happened yet. It can only be a matter of time.

    Private by-to-let is killing the market especially. There's a swathe of people who believe that houses are the best form of investment, but it's just blocking everyone else and causing damage to anyone who'd like to buy for themselves.

    I blame property porn TV.
     
  23. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    69,338
    Location:
    loony left
    It's infantilising people. If you can't find a job, you're not allowed any adult responsibilities - you must GO TO YOUR ROOM and THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE. That is not going to help people go out and find work. But Cameron doesn't care about that, he doesn't care that these people are STILL going to be unemployed - he just wants their parents paying for them so he doesn't have to. More money for CHAMPAGNE for his media and banking buddies instead! MARVELLOUS!
     
  24. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,390
    does everyone who apply receive the same amount of housing benefit in the UK? or regulated based on income like here?

    I've chosen not to receive it, I don't wish to burden the already burdened budget and want the money to go elsewhere and do someone good. I also have a well paid job, something a lot of young people don't have access to in these dark times

    maybe politicians should work to lower unrealistically sky high rents instead
     
  25. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,390
    oh you already said that
     
  26. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    69,338
    Location:
    loony left
    You have to be earning under a certain amount to get it. I'm not sure whether the amount you're entitled to varies or not though...
     
  27. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,559
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    From LHA website

     
  28. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,801
    Location:
    European Union
    But also on your income and savings levels.
     
  29. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    114,678
    Location:
    The Cinema
    I was reliant on benefits for six months on and off after graduating when I couldn't find full-time work. If I hadn't had support I'd have had to go back to Liverpool and I'd never have gotten my current job. I can't tell you how dispiriting that would have been. God knows what I'd be doing now.
     
  30. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,559
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    I edited that because i wasn't shure.

    I've never claimed it myself, just basing it on experience of others i know
     
  31. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,559
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    I've never been properly unemployed :(
     
  32. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    69,338
    Location:
    loony left
    See Cameron needs to hear stories like this cos he clearly has NO FUCKING CLUE.
     
  33. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    69,338
    Location:
    loony left
    This just popped up on Facebook, how timely :)

    [​IMG]
     
  34. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    You are so closed to ever considering anything The Tories do that it's impossible to have a conversation about it. In theory, I completely share your political beliefs, but life is not perfect.

    Living with your parents is no more demoralising to most people than depending on the state. Either way, you're unable to stand on your own two feet - both are shit situations to be in but one doesn't cost the taxpayer anything.

    Ultimately, the country has to make cuts. Every single one is going to negatively affect someone in some way.

    With all the focus on closing dodgy tax avoidance schemes at the moment, its obvious the coalition are not just taking from the poor and letting the rich do what they want...
     
  35. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    155,984
    It's one thing if your parents can afford to keep you. Of course I suppose it doesn't occur to Cameron that might not be the case. Deductions are now made from housing benefit if you have an adult child at home, working on the principle that that child can contribute to the household. So in VoR's case, he would have been forced home, and then if his parents were on housing benefit, he'd have been at home, jobless, AND his parents would have been worse off.
     
  36. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    191,855
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    I'm too in dismay to comment properly. Not that it really effects me, but could have done in the past. Way to lumber even MORE on my parents.

    How far away are we from an election? Three years. Shame. Because the rot has already set in. Damage can be undone in that time however.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  37. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    155,984
    Plus of course they have already changed the housing benefit rules so that people under 35 now receive a lower rate; they are expected to live in a shared house. AND changed the rate so it is based on the 30th percentile of the rental market rather than median.
     
  38. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,390
    offspring moves in > bigger bills > less spending money? won't it just even out?
     
  39. Kate

    Kate she's for the streets BITCH

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    69,338
    Location:
    loony left
    Not true, I agreed with something Gove came up with the other week... making kids learn languages younger. SO THERE. (Took me a minute to remember what it was, but still :D)

    Living in your own place, even if it is "off the state", brings far more responsibilities with it than living with your parents. It's a start.

    Focus on closing dodgy tax avoidance schemes? You mean Cameron saying Jimmy Carr has been a bit naughty? It's all just lip service. He won't crack down on the big companies. How many rents would Vodafone's SIX BILLION POUNDS pay for...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  40. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    191,855
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    It did get complicated when I did it last year. I live in a shared house, but that caused one kind of problem. And there was indeed the weird calculation about the rate. They paid the first three months in full (luckily I didn't need any more) and then it would have dropped to well below my rent, which was absurd.
     

Share This Page