Making A Murderer - Netflix True Crime (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Moopy TV' started by Phoenix, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    For those who marathoned the whole series, who's the worst real life person?

    I'm going for Len the defense attorney as played by William H Macy throughout his career.
     
  2. Suomi

    Suomi Super Moderator

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    i'm on episode 5 right now. i haven't read your opening post Phoenix. I am desperate, absolutely DESPERATE just to read what happens at the end. I am terrible for these types of shows - I always read the last few pages of a book when I get it, for instance.

    At the moment it seems pretty clear that the police set Steven Avery up a second time, and were able to do so because that 16 year old is so stupid and impressionable? The grammar from some of these people is incredible
     
  3. Crash

    Crash Thank You

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    He has an intellectual disability :manson:
     
  4. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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    I am SO PLEASED big fat pig Ken Kratz had somewhat of a downfall. His smug stupid face towards the end of the trial just made my blood boil, and his stupid voice!
     
  5. Ryan

    Ryan User

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    What a compelling and incredibly well made documentary this is. Amazing.

    I finished it pretty quickly and am of the opinion that Avery probably did it but the police most definitely planted a lot of that evidence (especially the key) to ensure a conviction. That forced confession from Brendan was just something else - how did they get away with that? And how was his lawyer allowed to continue practicing?
     
  6. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    I think there's a possibility he did it but I'm sure that most of that evidence was fabricated (although apparently there's more evidence to convict him that the documentary didn't show). It just shows how messed up the legal system is in the US.
     
  7. Star

    Star Homo Secretary (OB)

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    I LOVED this. I'm pretty convinced Steven Avery was set up, the flaws in the evidence just seem massive. I don't understand how any jury can find him guilty, that evidence has got to leave doubt in everyone's mind surely? I found it quite scary too though, that in this day and age someone can't get a fair trial :( I think there was a lot of corruption going on behind the scenes, with jury fixing etc.
     
  8. Star

    Star Homo Secretary (OB)

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    Oh yes I did read about the missing evidence afterwards actually. It would be interesting to hear about that.
     
  9. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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  10. Star

    Star Homo Secretary (OB)

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    Wow :o
     
  11. cwej

    cwej User

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    I don't think he (or Massey) did it. I mean, it's not really possible to rule it, but to me the fact is that during the documentary we were told that Avery had an IQ of 70 and Massey had an IQ of 71. Yet they managed to rape, murder (using a knife AND a gun) and mutilate the body of this victim, leaving not a single scrap of DNA evidence that anyone could find for over a month…!?

    His absolute desperation, looking through all the case files, whilst knowing it's probably a hopeless task says to me he really really believes he didn't do it. I just don't believe someone would waste their time trying to prove their innocence so incessantly if they knew they were guilty. Maybe I'm being naive, but he doesn't seem clever enough to spend 8 years pulling the wool over their eyes. I think his sister hit the nail on the head - they would not let this man walk away with a payout of $36 million - and it seems far too convenient that he was close to getting that kind of money just before this happened. I would also go further than the defence lawyers did and say I could even see the police or the state going as far as killing an innocent woman to actually set him up… (is that going too far? I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist.. but I just can't get over how set up he seemed to be).

    Why did the appeal keep going to the same judge? Why would he ever just suddenly change his mind? I don't understand how that can possibly be fair. Every single decision just seemed totally wrong, throughout the entire 10 episodes.

    As one of the defence lawyers said though, I really really hope he DID do it, otherwise the burden of that prison sentence is just too much to bear. :(
     
  12. cwej

    cwej User

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    Another huge issue for me is the apparent lack of presumption of innocence on the part of EVERYONE in the room, especially the judge. As people have said above, he MAY have done it - but we just can't say that without 'reasonable doubt' and as a result he shouldn't have been convicted, even if he MIGHT have done it.

    It was very interesting that at the beginning only 3 of the 12 jurors were pressing for a guilty verdict. It goes to show how flawed a jury system is. It was completely dependent on who were the stronger characters in the jury group and who would be better at persuading people round to their side.
     
  13. cwej

    cwej User

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    Oh… ONE MORE THING… I know it's partly because the creators of this documentary have a narrative they are trying to fit, but how funny is it how much the 'baddies' are so OBVIOUSLY baddies. Moustaches and sly looks… Kratz, Kichensky, Lenk, the deputy sheriff woman at the beginning who fucked him over for the rape… they were all EVIL. :D

    And the DNA woman with the constant smug smile throughout her questioning was my favourite bit part in the whole series. GIVE THAT WOMAN AN EMMY FOR BEST GUEST STAR IN A DOCUMENTARY.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  14. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    More news

     
  15. Star

    Star Homo Secretary (OB)

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    I have to say cwej, the fact that he is trying so hard to go through the case and find that bit of evidence that could save him, it also makes me think he is innocent
     
  16. big ron

    big ron User

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    I've seen people banging on about this but having read a bit about it I just think it sounds DULL. What am I missing?
     
  17. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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    Well nothing now you've read up on it. I think for it to make the most impact you have to go in completely blind, and just letting it all unravel.
     
  18. big ron

    big ron User

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    Oh right, fuck that then.
     
  19. cwej

    cwej User

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    Yes i made sure not to see a single spoiler throughout the entire 10 episodes. It would have been seriously dull if you knew the story beforehand. The announcement of the verdict was more tense than any drama I've watched. Barb's response to her son's incarceration so human and tough to watch as well. :(
     
  20. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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    Oh God when they were about to announce the verdict I almost turned it off. I didn't want to know!
     
  21. Ag

    Ag User

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    I've just finished this. Quite compulsive viewing.

    On one hand the documentary portrayed them as innocent, but I don't think the younger one was as innocent as he portrayed, slow, but still capable of lying. He was consistent however. I bought Steve's innocence right up until the end (there were so many flaws in the prosecution case) but it makes you wonder what alternative there was...

    My highlight however was the Yooper accent. Call me a fan.
     
  22. RaspberrySwirl

    RaspberrySwirl Leftover

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    I just finished watching this. I started watching yesterday not even knowing this was a documentary. It was so intense and I really thought that by the last episode both of them will be proved not guilty. The way it turned out to be makes me so angry and unsatisfied. I agree with the things cwej said; these guys are way too stupid to go through with such a murder, and whats the motive? Why would anyone who's just left prison and was about to get very wealthy commit such a crime?

    I hate knowing that this is still going on and the poor idiots are still in prison. And what an awful life they'd have even when they're free. I mean the state of all those people, the way they talked and dressed. I'm totally declaring war on this shitty state of Wisconsin.


    Ans that Kratz pig, I knew he was a perv. And the victim's brother was rather odious too.
     
  23. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    Brendan Dassey's conviction has been overturned :o
     
  24. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    He will be released within 90 days.
     
  25. Star

    Star Homo Secretary (OB)

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  26. Crash

    Crash Thank You

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    Unless the state want to re-try him
     
  27. dUb

    dUb TRIUMPHANT (GET 'EM)

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    Back with 10 new episodes on the 19th of October
     
  28. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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    Surely there’s nothing major to be revealed?
     
  29. Ag

    Ag User

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    Is it the same crime or something different?
     
  30. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    Same crime, it feels like they’re milking it.
     
  31. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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    Well hopefully they will delve into why the nephew is STILL IN PRISON.
     
  32. Phoenix

    Phoenix Brown Cow...STUNNING

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    He did get a release but the state blocked it or something like that.
     
  33. jivafox

    jivafox Stay sexy don’t get murdered

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    Exactly. Give us the (infuriating) FACTS.
     
  34. cwej

    cwej User

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    10 more episodes on this case?!?! I mean I could understand 1 or 2, but 10!?
     

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