New Tory leadership/ PM campaign - It's Theresa May

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Jun 26, 2016.

?

Sophie's Choice - who do you want to win?

  1. Stephen Crabb

    10.7%
  2. Liam Fox

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Michael Gove

    3.6%
  4. Andrea Leadsom

    7.1%
  5. Theresa May

    78.6%
  1. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    What am I wrong about? I've mainly just asked questions and haven't really drawn many conclusions. But, yeah, let's shut down any discussion that's not the usual leftie echo chamber and doesn't fit the evil Tory caricature narrative.
     
  2. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    Well, you can say that but you haven't.

    The difference between those that the current government will go out of their way to defend or at least remain silent at the incompetence of a private sector contractor but exploit the incompetence of the public sector institution.
     
  3. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    To be honest, what I said wasn't necessarily calling you wrong either. I was pointing to particular points of discussion and examining certain beliefs that you express from another perspective... namely one that shines a light on the possible intentions of government decisions as opposed to their expressed intentions.

    I think its quite simplistic to suggest what I am saying is an evil Tory narrative. All i'm saying is that they, like many governments, are making decisions informed perhaps more significantly by a particular world view rather than fact, that they have done a fair amount of work to manipulate public perceptions of these decisions into alignment with their expressed or more guarded reasons for making those decisions. It's not unique to Tories at all, but they are probably more adept at it and almost the entire media is on side as well.

    It contributes to things as simple as people feeling as though the only or most valid thing a person can do in this society is be in paid work, or that government institutions are inefficent and wasteful. And those are essentially the views you have offered throughout this discussion. Obviously you have said things that differ from the government view, such as your comments or privatisation, in other parts I feel like i'm arguing with a living and breathing David Cameron soundbite. I guess its the same way that Red Pen occasionally sounds like he has been briefed by party officials before replying.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  4. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Oh just FUCK OFF

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    Three words: ten point lead

    And an increased majority now the Tories are getting into bed with the DUP
     
  6. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    What are those three words supposed to prove? That it's totally fine she's trailing us all off into full-blown parochialism?
     
  7. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    Not fine in the slightest but probably best to get used to it as long as there's no opposition and no likelihood of one arriving soon.
     
  8. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    The shit that's been coming out of the Tory party conference really has underlined how dreadful they are. I still think May is the best choice, of any party, to lead the UK at this point in time, but that is incredibly depressing in itself.
     
  9. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    Didn't like her shoes much.
     
  10. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    187,881
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    I've said it before, but I can see Brexit being the end of May as well.
     
  11. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Nah. The morons will just carry on blaming it on Europe.
     
  12. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam mess

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    9,156
    Location:
    The streets
    I despair that we have a TORY Prime Minister who is devoting herself to destroying our economy to appease the cousin-fuckers in the provinces. I don't count on the Tories for much, but I thought making sure we had LOADSAMONEY and rich bankers was sort of their thing.
     
  13. jivafox

    jivafox chalamet & chill

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    16,825
    Location:
    Twin Peaks
    This PANDERING to the very type of people they have always looked down on, if not disagreed with, just highlights a government in complete TAILSPIN. And we're going to be stuck with them for AGES. :manson:
     
  14. Commotion

    Commotion User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    5,686
    Out of curiosity once the wicked witch has pressed the button on article 50, it could take 2 years before Britain is out of the EU. right?

    Once article 50 is activated, cant it be put on pause again?

    (Depends on it Germany allows it, I suppose - and I doubt there will be much goodwill shown to Britain in negotiations)

    But there will surely be another general election before the exit is complete.

    I know that there is an extraordinary percentage of British people who voted for Brexit for racist reasons, but almost half the population voted no, and some of the yes voters are not complete racists and may rethink their vote.

    A general election based on a promise to halt Brexit for 5 years - would that be possible?
     
  15. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Not under Theresa May.
     
  16. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    Arguing with a Jabba The Hut lookalike little Englander CUNT on Kala's Facebook has been the true highlight of my day.
     
  17. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    67,840
    Location:
    loony left
    "I will be right wing till the day I die." Let's hope that's SOON, EH?

    (Hope it's not Kala's mum or something)
     
  18. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    24,092
    Location:
    Glasgow
    My phone has been buzzing like a rampant rabbit the past hour as I was in a meeting! :D now RB is getting involved!
     
  19. Kate

    Kate SLAGS 4 TAGS

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    67,840
    Location:
    loony left
    Now she wants Scotland to "eff off"! How exactly do you know this THUNDERCUNT?
     
  20. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    TBH, I would quite CUT ALL TIES with May's Britain right now.
     
  21. COB

    COB Skullomania nude on spacehopper

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    30,022
    I bet she's one of those surprisingly right wing Eurovision people :(
     
  22. Christian

    Christian GOOD BYE!

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    40,126
    Location:
    Darkness
    That was a good speech today. With Labour shunting THEMSELVES off to the hard left, UKIP now openly chasing disenchanted Labour voters and the Lib Dems AWOL, it's been handed to her on a plate. When do the boundary changes come in? If there before the next election, her majority is surely going to be immense.
     
  23. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    24,092
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Any bigger majority the Tories have is going to make Scottish independence even MORE certain.
     
  24. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Are we still persisting with this 'Scotland despises the Tories more than life itself' thing? Theresa May and Ruth Davidson both have higher approval ratings than Nicola Sturgeon - in Scotland. And the biggest thing Theresa May is being foul on is the one electoral vulnerability that has been identified for the SNP among SNP supporters - immigration. Jim Murphy decided not to run with a campaign attacking the SNP on that one for fairly obvious reasons.

    Sadly, I think this is going to go down much better in the country than most of us would like, and that includes Scotland too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  25. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    And don't forget the absolutely abysmal economic prospects of an independent Scotland. I guess a lot of people would be ok with seeing people lose their jobs and public services slashed, provided it wasn't THEIR job.
     
  26. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Less fussed on that one tbh. The UK's headed for absolutely abysmal economic prospects with the kind of deal Theresa May is aiming for regardless.
     
  27. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    There's plenty I didn't like in her speech, but plenty I did.

    I think she comes across very well in that she is articulate and eloquent but comparatively normal. She's very calm and a lot more relatable than most senior politicians. She just sounds RATHER SENSIBLE. Talk of a fairer Britain for everyone is always going to be a winner and it's refreshingly positive for everyone... No demonising of those at either end of the scale as is so often the case.
     
  28. Penelope

    Penelope Look right for CALMING INFLUENCE

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    29,389
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Pretty much every Prime Minister that wasn't Margaret Thatcher has had the sense to mouth platitudes about a fairer Britain for everyone (and I've no doubt she is sincere on things like workers on boards etc). But I honestly would've rather had Boris fucking Johnson going by the hints of what her agenda will be. It's literally what a Ukip government programme would've ever looked like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  29. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,605
    Location:
    European Union
    It's a worst case scenario - a government rolling back civil liberties and not giving a shit about the economy.
     
  30. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    It's a load of rhetoric... the stuff about a "country that works for everyone" doesn't really say anything very different to what Osborne was saying.

    The Tories will always have certain undesirables... and their version of a country that works for everyone is one that works for everyone that agrees with their vision of the country. Right now, their attempt to unite the nation is to lay off the working classes and go after the foreigners.

    I agree that she superficially sounds "sensible" but just because she isn't rambling incoherently like Trump doesn't mean what she says isn't ghastly.

    Count me out of this dreadful parochial vision of the future. May is selling a Britain is which every corner is Little England, and it sounds like the kind of HELL I want no part in.
     
  31. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    As always, I think that's a bit of an overreaction, although I don't disagree with the Little England vision not really matching my own vision of what the UK could and should be.

    Comparing her to Trump is ridiculous though. I believe her intentions are genuinely good. His are categorically not. Have you watched the full hour of her speaking?

    If she succeeds in improving the day to day lives and wages of the working classes, they will be in power for decades. Putting workers and consumers on boards is actually something I feel very strongly about as a tool to regulate corportate greed, and she seems very committed to it. It's something that should have happened long before we got to this stage.
     
  32. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    What are the new workers' rights that she mentions quite a few times?
     
  33. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    I'm being melodramatic but you know what I mean.

    I didn't compare her to Trump, I simply said that people shouldn't mistake someone sounding good to them actually saying good things.

    And I can't take the notions that her intentions are genuinely good when she is quite clearly still putting the electoral success of her party before really centrally important things like the economy. They want to sink UKIP.

    If she is genuinely well-intentioned, it is in a way that is naive to what she can influence. I don't see a clear plan for the areas of the country that still remain pretty economically barren post-industrialisation. There is no denying that that is the core reason for the working classes feeling the way they do today. I don't necessarily agree with the alternative view that there is some way to reinstate our industrial past.

    Certain realities need to be accepted and ideas and plans need to be made. The first being that the economy we have created as it stands doesn't actually have a place in it for everyone in our society.
     
  34. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    42,472
    Well, she does talk about attracting business to the north and the midlands, at least. They do seem to have been largely committed to creating economic opportunities outside London, in fairness to them. As you say, there's no easy solution. It's being acknowledged, if nothing else. They've also not shied away from HS2, despite it being massively unpopular in the Tory heartlands.
     
  35. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock wo ist der party?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,058
    Location:
    London
    Economic opportunities outside London doesn't necessarily speak about those areas outside the cities. I mean, even Glasgow has found its way in some sense eventually but surrounding towns are very sad versions of their former selves.

    Technological advances are also threatening people's potential to earn in the future and I fear it will take the Conservatives (and all political parties) far too long to wake up to. I'd say the Conservatives in particular because more than any other party their emphasis is on individual responsibility.
    So I can see people being told to retrain and study and get themselves as in individual into one of the jobs that hasn't been lost to technology, but there are only so many of those jobs and there will always be people left behind. That is what happened in the move from industrialisation to post-industrialisation and it is going to happen again.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/science...nts-which-group-would-steal-most-british-jobs
     
  36. Dark Carnival

    Dark Carnival User

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    59,189
    Location:
    Sarajevo
  37. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    187,881
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
  38. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    187,881
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    In case you hadn't realised that article is from July.
     
  39. PJL

    PJL User

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,904
    Location:
    Here
    It wouldn't surprise me if India overtakes us by the end of the year.
     
  40. Alex

    Alex User

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    33,141
    The important difference though is she didn't come from a privileged background. Middle class parents, grammar school not a prestigious private school. She didn't have everything handed to her on a plate like others and I just hope (probably naively) that'll make some difference...
     

Share This Page