Scottish Independence Debate

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by SDF, Feb 23, 2013.

?

Independence?

Poll closed Sep 18, 2014.
  1. I am Scottish - YES

    4.3%
  2. I am Scottish - NO

    12.9%
  3. I am Scottish - DON'T KNOW

    1.4%
  4. I am British (not Scottish) - YES

    7.1%
  5. I am British (not Scottish) - NO

    44.3%
  6. I am British (not Scottish) - DON'T KNOW

    8.6%
  7. I am not British - YES

    2.9%
  8. I am not British - NO

    5.7%
  9. I am not British - DON'T KNOW

    12.9%
  1. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

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    My motivation is because I think things work as they are right now. I really can't see how it will benefit Scotland to be independent. None of the other major parties apart from SNP support this either. If this referendum fails, then the SNP will have to completely rethink their whole agenda or risk losing power.
     
  2. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

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    I guess it's just that I don't see the current UK situation as particularly beneficial to someone like myself. Economically, the UK isn't performing well on paper, though I understand that some people are not really suffering by what is happening at the moment. I personally am in quite a precarious position and I only see that being harmed by the (lack of) action by the UK Government. I really have lost faith in UK Labour to fundamentally change anything in the long run too. They effectively have a guaranteed Scottish vote, but to get elected must pander to sections of the electorate whose beliefs are completely contrary to what Labour probably should stand for. The rising status on UKIP hasn't exactly quashed these concerns.

    I do agree with you, that if the referendum receives a "no" vote then the SNP should concentrate on the 2016 election. They've said the vote is likely a generational thing, as devolution was, so I don't expect them to do anything other than accept the outcome of that particular ballot. However, they would also have every right to call out the other parties if they fail to act on their assertions of a changed devolution settlement.

    I should have mentioned that I was also really asking for the views of people outside of Scotland and their motivation for maintaining the union.
     
  3. Commotion

    Commotion User

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    I don't know how I feel about Scottish independence.

    In theory it's a valid idea.

    The current system in the UK is not really democratic - allowing Scottish (or Northern Irish) MP's to vote on issues which affect England but not Scotland is dreadful (irrespective of whether it means perpetual Tory rule - that's more an issue surrounding the crappy electoral system in Britain).

    And the House of Lords is an undemocratic anachronism that either needs to be abolished or replaced with an elected upper house - irrespective of whether Scotland stays or leaves.

    Issues like EU membership; currency; head of state (would Scotland remain part of the Commonwealth with the Queen as the head of state, or would it be a republic) are issues that are inevitable but only in the short term. In the long run these would be resolved.

    In the long run would independence be better for Scotland, I don't know.

    It's not really comparable to Ireland getting independence in 1922 either as Ireland was far poorer than Scotland, and suffered far worse than Scotland did under British rule at the time. If you take Ireland as an example, it took about 65 years after independence for Ireland to be truly able to say that independence was a good idea.

    Would England be better off without Scotland - quite possibly. The Scottish oil is running out and Scotland consumes vast quantities of tax money. That would be a big saving.
     
  4. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

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    I am Scottish but don't have a vote.

    I would vote YES to independence at this stage, as I would find it incredibly audacious and interesting to see what happened.

    I don't think it would make a substantial difference to those living in the rest of the UK.
     
  5. Eileen

    Eileen All the better to see you with, my dear.

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    Quite an unexpected set of votes so far. Scots living outside Scotland voting yes, Scots living inside Scotland voting no and the only Brit voting yes is one of our most right wing members.
     
  6. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

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    Are you one of the people that is annoyed about that or are you one of the people that accepts it?

    Is that the only reason?

    To be honest, Broomhelga's vote makes complete sense. Why would a right-winger want to keep a hold of Scotland?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  7. Eileen

    Eileen All the better to see you with, my dear.

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    Imperial reasons.
     
  8. Barnacle

    Barnacle Climb on through my window.

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    Oops, I meant non-Brit/don't know.
     
  9. Eileen

    Eileen All the better to see you with, my dear.

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    Bbz, you from Ulster. KEEP THE UNION FLAG FLYING :basil:
     
  10. Barnacle

    Barnacle Climb on through my window.

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    I just applied for a renewal of my Irish pp thanks very much. I should say go raibh maith agat of course.

    And I'm Ulster and proud. Just not Northern Irish or British.
     
  11. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam Not Lana Del Rey

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    Oops, I voted wrong. I am British, I'm just not entirely non-Scottish. I still don't have much of an opinion either way though.
     
  12. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Why of course?
     
  13. Broomhelga

    Broomhelga User

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    I voted yes because i'd be interested to see how they'd get on.
     
  14. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    One year now. This is going to be massive news for the next year.

    Questions - would the Union Jack change and would they still get the BBC?
     
  15. octophone

    octophone The Electrocutioner

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    I just want to see Alex Salmond a broken man. I could not bear to see that smug cunt happy.
     
  16. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

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    I'm very concerned that he's going to die of a heart attack shortly before the referendum and influence the vote. I'm fascinated by the width of his neck.
     
  17. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    The prospect of Prime Minister Nicola Sturgeon would be very offputting.
     
  18. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    Flag - who cares? The blue in the Union Jack is a different shade to the saltire. It's really a non issue. And any change would be made by the new union.

    BBC - I guess we'd be best place to look at RTE - who buy in most popular shows. Scotland would set up its own public broadcaster, which would then be able to make more local programming, that is relevant to Scottish people. Right now, Scotland pays 300million in licence fees but only gets back about a third of that to invest in Scottish programming. So this is a entirely affordable solution.

    Octy - This campaign is not an election. If you hate Salmond you can chuck him and the SNP out of government after Independence Day in 2016. I'd question anyone basing their decision on this and not look at the bigger picture which is about democracy - who do you fe is best placed to make decisions for the people of Scotland? It's either those living here or taking a toss of a coin and potentially end up with Tory governments we overwhelmingly reject each and every election.
     
  19. RobotBoy

    RobotBoy BANG BANG

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    New Scottish broadcaster = Scotland in Eurovision = a reason to vote for independence.
     
  20. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

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    In the event of a yes vote will Scottish households have to pay the same licence fee as those in the UK, or will there be an initial agreement with the BBC to carry on providing services until there's a handover?
     
  21. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Perhaps the rest of us care. You know the ones who'll you'll be begging for £££ when it all inevitably goes tits up.
     
  22. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    And what about the Queen as Monarch?
     
  23. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

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    Kept. She'll become the Queen of Scotland (assuming she agrees - I wonder if it's her personal choice)
     
  24. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    This is BS. Perhaps this is how it is reported in a quite frankly ill informed and biased media but this is just not the case. It's exactly what the Better Together campaign want to focus on. It's scaremongering and presents a connotation that being a yea voter is somehow racist.

    Independence is our opportunity to design a country that tackles the injustices that Scotland has faced under Westminster rule. The Scottish Parliament has proven to me that Scotland absolutely is making better decisions in devolved issues (and balancing a budget) over Westminster. Like the NHS. Thats why I want Scotland to make all of her decisions.
     
  25. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I'm sorry but we're having the NHS back. You can start again with that.
     
  26. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    The referendum is in 2014 with independence in 2016 which gives an initial period to negotiate things like the above.
     
  27. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    Since the inception of the NHS in 1948 the Scottish NHS has been a separate entity. It is fully devolved to the Scottish parliament. Independence would make no difference to the running of the Scottish, or indeed the English (or what is left of it) NHS.
     
  28. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    This is all very presumptive. What are the current opinion polls like?
     
  29. win_the_game

    win_the_game User

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    The average poll rating according to the BBC:

    Yes - 33%
    No - 50%
    Don't Know/Unsure - 17%
     
  30. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

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    But if people are voting for or against it, and things aren't clear, concise answers needed for people to make an informed choice? I know it's not the most important thing but if I wanted to be informed, I would expect a clear "this is what will happen if you vote yes or no" list. At the moment it all seems very wishy washy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  31. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    Respected pollster, John Curtis, has analysed the polls and in a forced Yes/No vote puts it roughly 40/60 in favour of No.
     
  32. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    I wonder if it happens they'll try to invade Panama again.
     
  33. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    How does that compare with other polls since the referendum was announced?
     
  34. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam Not Lana Del Rey

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    If they vote no, can the British vote for independence from Scotland?
     
  35. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    The problem is that Westminster have outright said they will NOT engage with constructive discussions with Scotland before the polls. I think you really have to question why. The White Paper is being published by the Scottish Government in November which is a comprehensive guide answering the questions people are asking.

    It is also not an election. The SNP will set out their principle for independence but it is also up to the rest of the Scottish parties to set out what their vision to.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  36. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

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    40/60 is very close, I am getting so worried now. :( do they need 50.1% to gain independence?
     
  37. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

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    Where's Bea Arthur to deliver a "yes, Rose" answer when you need one.
     
  38. Penelope

    Penelope SMIRKING LESBIAN MOON

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    That average includes one that's way, way out of whack with the rest - Panelbase. Averaging the rest it's pretty much 66/33.
     
  39. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

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    I didn't realise the UK Government were being that arsey about it.

    I does seem like the Scottish people genuinely care about it and I hope there's a high turnout.. When there was the second referendum in Wales about increasing powers for the Assembly, just over a third bothered to vote. I voted no, as the calibre of politician here is appalling.
     
  40. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

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    That is just where the figures lie generally. Each poll is different and can vary wildly:

    Link: http://www.whatscotlandthinks.org
     

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