Scottish Independence Debate

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by SDF, Feb 23, 2013.

?

Independence?

Poll closed Sep 18, 2014.
  1. I am Scottish - YES

    4.3%
  2. I am Scottish - NO

    12.9%
  3. I am Scottish - DON'T KNOW

    1.4%
  4. I am British (not Scottish) - YES

    7.1%
  5. I am British (not Scottish) - NO

    44.3%
  6. I am British (not Scottish) - DON'T KNOW

    8.6%
  7. I am not British - YES

    2.9%
  8. I am not British - NO

    5.7%
  9. I am not British - DON'T KNOW

    12.9%
  1. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    191,834
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Mervyn King STRIKES AGAIN!
     
  2. Shirley

    Shirley BIG-HEARTED BUNNY

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Messages:
    35,044
    Mervyn King AND Beyonce? Recommendations don't come much HIGHER than THAT
     
  3. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
    Could someone from Scotland please explain to me again why it would want to be demoted to an extremely minor European country instead of part of one of the biggest economies and political players in the world?

    I'm sure there are valid reasons beyond 'I hate the English' or 'I don't consider myself British'.
     
  4. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    25,954
    Location:
    Your DMs
    I think thats pretty much the backbone of the whole campaign.

    Good luck to them. As long as it doesn't weaken the pound against the Euro I couldn't give a fuck.
     
  5. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
    I just don't get it.
     
  6. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    SIZE QUEEN
     
  7. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
    says the guy from the country than annexes an island three billion times the size of its own mainland.
     
  8. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    there's a strong sentiment of independence in domestic politics in Greenland and if that's the direction they want to take, fine with me
     
  9. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    same with the Faroe Islands
     
  10. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
    see that I'm not so bothered about. There's a lot to be said for Geography. The empires are over, if an island wants to be independent when it's halfway around the world from its 'home country', fine. ie. The Faulkland Islands (although by all accounts the Faulkland Islands are like Gibraltar - they mostly consider themselves part of the UK).

    But even then I don't get it. Why would you give up the benefits of being part of a world power. Even though Denmark isn't in the G8 or G20 or whatever, it still must be good for the Faroes and Greenland to have that connection. It's not like it's written into law that they have to call themselves Danish.
     
  11. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    they don't but I doubt the ties will be severed even if they gain independence - they might be constitutionally but there's no living Greenlandic citizen who isn't in some measure part of the collective cultural heritage of the Danish mainland. the current shift in attitude is more due to their wish of absolute control over external policies and natural resources which are now placed under the Danish parliament and not the Greenlandic home rule (who decide on internal policies)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  12. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    I really would like to see a poll conducted amongst the English on independence. Ditch the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish and go it alone? And whilst we're at it, shall we leave Europe?

    I'd vote no and no, obviously, but I do feel the English are getting a bit of a short shrift especially as the Welsh, Scottish and NI MPs can vote on health and education matters and other issues, which are completely devolved and managed in their own areas by their AMs/MSPs etc.
     
  13. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    and to be frank, if they want to fuck up their environment I want no part in it!
     
  14. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
    I don't want the UK split up but I don't consider myself a patriot at all. Maybe it's because I've never considered myself 'English' - to me English is a language, not a nationality. England was a state from hundreds of years ago.

    I'm British, I'm from the UK, and I just want it to stay that way I guess. I can't imagine why anyone else would think otherwise, Scottish, Welsh or whatever.

    NI is a whole other thing. Again it's Geography. It seems strange to split up an island and claim half of it for your own. Then again I haven't lived through the transiation and we are unfortunately too far down the path of treading those waters again so best leave well alone for now while things are slowly improving over there.
     
  15. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    64,699
    I'm personally waiting for London to declare independence and to leave the rest to it!

    We could be the new HK!
     
  16. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    The issues for England now are that the other 3 countries are becoming more and more individual, and more separate.

    Gay marriage won't be recognised in Northern Ireland, for example. In Wales this weekend it was reported that special needs English speaking children have been stopped from sharing the same canteen as Welsh speaking children as there's a "welsh speaking only" policy in place. All Welsh people get free NHS presciptions, even those earning £200k a year, but the poorest can be denied specialist medications given to patients in England.

    Tuition fees is another issues.

    Devolution has created a lot of inequality and there's no going back.
     
  17. Indie

    Indie Great Tits IN THE SNOW

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    55,556
    Location:
    :noitacoL
    Let's just break up the UK into county countries.

    I for one would be happy with the Independent Republic of Yorkshire
     
  18. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    64,699
    Frankly if backward old NI doesn't want to acknowledge out equal rights, then they can do one as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  19. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    Who'd have thought 20 years ago that Sinn Fein would be the ones championing equal rights for the sodomites.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  20. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    25,954
    Location:
    Your DMs
    YORKSHIRE YORKSHIRE YORKSHIRE.

    I'd like to see another War Of The Roses
     
  21. Barnacle

    Barnacle Climb on through my window.

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    10,185
    I hate my answer here.
     
  22. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
    You can - it's called Game of Thrones.
     
  23. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,800
    Location:
    European Union
    Can we have them?
     
  24. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    191,834
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    I've always liked the idea of an independent Northern Ireland. Leave us out of our historic mess!
     
  25. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    what are you willing to pay?
     
  26. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,800
    Location:
    European Union
    We'll give you the same as the Americans did for the Danish West Indies.
     
  27. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    I'll PM you my bank details
     
  28. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,132
    Location:
    London
    You'll realise that's bollocks if you read literally any official campaign material. Yes, there are a few massive CUNTS on the 'yes' side who seem to want to perpetuate all of the worst stereotypes bestowed upon us but generally I find most "yes" supporters I mix with to be quite considered and well read on the whole thing. I can pretty much understand why people outside Scotland don't appear to understand it (it doesn't help that the nature of some of the media coverage is pretty appalling, particularly from UK-wide sources) but I genuinely think some of the campaign material goes some way to an explanation. With regards to the 'world power' stuff, I guess there is some element of not being particularly happy about the overall style of representation being offered by UK Governments at a supranational level, be it the European Union or elsewhere. My support for independence has absolutely nothing to do with dissatisfaction with being British or disliking the English (or indeed, Wales or NI, who are casually forgotten whenever anyone talks about Scottish independence). I also have an overwhelming sense that Westminster's democracy is broken and so archaic that I have more chance of winning Strictly Come Dancing than there is of there being serious reform there. I guess there is also a feeling that it is an institution that more often than not fails to represent anything I would constitute as my political priorities. So yes, my reasons for supporting independence are quite personal but I also like to think they're grounded in some kind of reasonable thought process. I feel confident also that most people around here feel that I am not a complete moron when it comes to discussing issues of politics and policy.

    What confuses me is that a lot of the coverage, particularly UK-wide coverage, is somewhat hostile and yet it also seems to purport a pro-union viewpoint. Seems very contrary.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  29. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,800
    Location:
    European Union
    And you'll pass it on to Nyborg?
     
  30. Mats

    Mats User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    25,388
    she's dead, love!
     
  31. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    64,699
    The levels of retardation displayed by the callers in this video are shocking (from 11:30). It seems logic and reason are going out the window on this one.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xm5EBDa42ck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  32. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,132
    Location:
    London
    I haven't watched that video all the way through (I watched about half of it the other day but now saying it's unavailable in my country?) but are we really expecting a high quality debate on The Wright Stuff? It's not as if anyone with a brain would dare watch it and it seems clear to me that the panel are pretty clueless, also. That's the issue with mainstream political debate... it's generally pretty retarded. I assure you that there are idiots and non-idiots on both sides!
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  33. Sharla

    Sharla The Resistance

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    15,886
    Boris should have gone further in his 'retard' speech and deny those with a low IQ the vote.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  34. Loufoque

    Loufoque BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    64,699
    Yes but the majority of voters are not poring through the white paper to weigh up the arguments for and against. Most people are like the callers on The Wright Stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  35. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,132
    Location:
    London
    Pretty much the consequences of democracy. It's not as if the majority of people's opinions have been of a higher quality towards any other recent referendum or election. There are and were the same unsophisticated attitudes towards the AV referendum and presumably towards the likely upcoming EU referendum as well. It's an unfortunate consequence of democracy.

    All i'm essentially trying to say is that stupid opinions in this argument are not unique in their levels of stupidity.
     
  36. Madison

    Madison Everything goes up by six

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    60,800
    Location:
    European Union
    I'd get used to that.
     
  37. funky

    funky OH SHE’LL HAVE TO CALL YOU BACK

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    80,082
  38. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    191,834
    Location:
    BRING BACK TAGS
    Oh my God! :D
     
  39. Tetris-Rock

    Tetris-Rock one of those "they/thems"

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12,132
    Location:
    London
    Oh, I know all the tricks Maddie...
     
  40. SDF

    SDF We're all Angles in Chainz

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    18,644
    Retardation by the callers? What about the panelists?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013

Share This Page