Discussion in 'Moopy Moop' started by Rita, Sep 15, 2020.
Fuming at this.
As someone who was involved in what I've seen referred to as TAG GATE, I genuinely believe it was other peoples reactions that stirred the pot more than the actual people involved. "REVEAL WHO IT WAS!" all seemed to be for the DRAMA of it all. Do you really think I wanted to know who made that tag? Absolutely not. And seeing how much it affected Octophone made me a bit sad tbh. She was put in a crappy position.
Context and timing plays a big part. Those particular White Lives Matter/We Need More White Posters whatever they were tags were just a wtf moment. At a time when the George Floyd incident happened and consequent BLM discussions were genuinely moving forward in such a promising way in the world, it was just a bit shit to see them. Especially when that thread had such intelligent and interesting discussion going on. But if all that wasn't going on in the world I probably wouldn't have battered an eyelid at them tbh. I would have just thought whoever did it had really SHIT CRACK. That is where I think context and timing plays a part. Despite how funny some might have thought they were it is HIGHKEY not a good look for any forum, even 'speak to your carer' Moopy.
The best suggestion I saw was turn them off in Current Affairs forum but would that really make a difference/possible? I never made tags but there's no denying some tags really have added to the community humour. I'd say Yes to having them back with different rules. Also think the opinions from posters who have been affected by them personally should be taken into account rather than a poll. Lets not have anymore members leaving. MUCH LOVE BEVERLY if you see this.
I called out tags a long time ago, and possibly before the nasty dUb or Chlammy tags. I was getting daily slating via tags going back around 2 years ago? via senseless sexist comments, and comments at me personally. What annoyed me the most was the fact that I couldn’t bite back, and whenever it was brought up the tags got deleted and it was brushed under the carpet. The content of the tag was not what got to me, it was the fact that the tagger would not stand by their convictions and have it out with me when they clearly had/have an issue with me. I don’t think it is fair to say that those who voted yes are possibly the perpetrators of the bad content, nor that those who voted yes were not targeted. I voted yes because although they do nothing for me personally I know that people think that they add an extra something to the forum and don’t see any issue with them coming back PUBLICLY.
I'm not saying that every yes voter was a perpetrator or that absolutely none of the yes voters have ever felt victimised by it.
Just that holding it to vote doesn't work because it dismisses the minority who were affected and takes into account the opinions of the people abusing it.
And that's not an attack on you for starting this thread either, as it's served a purpose however draining.
It's just a shame because 99% of our tags were brilliant. I've laughed so hard at some of them. I know it's an old argument, but I don't like the way that the 1% "ruined it for the rest of us".
Well, shoutout to my 11 comrades who just wanted to make Rui Da Silva tags and get our SHIRLEY to come 'ome.
Perhaps we need a new sub-forum with tags turned on, where just us thick-skinned cunts can be cunty to each other for fun?
Without wanting to start another civil war, maybe a different poll is required now? From what I can see there are four options being suggested;
Yes - like the old way.
Yes - but make tags public.
Yes - moderated/with a clearer definition of what will and won't be tolerated.
Some clearly have more traction than others. I would hope as adults we could find some consensus and a solution that takes into account the range of views and also the concerns.
Yeah I think we've discussed this issue enough to be able to make a more itemized poll. I do like the idea of removing tags from certain forums.
It's a bit of a faff, but i can remove tagging abilities for different forums, or for different user groups.
Theoretically I could just allow the people who voted yes to be able to tag. Not that would be the best idea, but just gives you a flavour of possible.
How about tag viewing? Can you turn that off for people who voted no
That would be perfect. Sadly not.
What about we can only write hurtful, personal tags relentlessly aimed at the people who voted yes?
yes cos that was SO what was happening!
Well, it's as idiotic as letting you all "thick-skinned cunts" carry on having a laugh at the expense of other posters who would be oblivious to your nasty tags!
Keri Hilson filing a lawsuit against Moopy AS WE SPEAK
I had no issue with your Gary Barlow tags so YOURSELF!
And I had MORE than my fair share of personal attacks back in the day but people grow up, people apologise and people get over it.
Kate, I really like you but this whole "thick skin" shtick about tags is belittling the points that several people have raised about how they felt about them. Your insistence at the expense of other people just makes you look like you give more of a fuck about funny upskirt tags than people's feelings. I'm not saying that you do, in fact I don't think you do, but it's how it's coming across.
as the social media spokesperson for Moopy these days (title tbc @Indie ) I DO like the idea of this, and have to say it’s the most compelling argument put forward for tags so far
Ugh. Look, I AM sorry for people who feel they have been targeted recently and unfairly. And I CERTAINLY don't think racist etc tags are acceptable. But we are all adults (even @Soldi IKR) and surely we can deal with this without a TEACHER going NO! NOW NONE OF YOU CAN HAVE THE NICE THING ANY MORE.
I have had a few gins tonight and I am pissed off about Ag leaving and apparently no-one giving a shit about that OR Shirley's continued absence.
BED NOW THOUGH.
I mean I voted YES but the desperation from some to have them back is weird tbh. Especially people leaving over it? I thought they were 90% hilarious but are they really a deciding factor on posting here? I obviously did the whole I’m leaving spiel like many of us posters do but that was because of racism. But leaving because tags aren’t here? Bihhhhh COME ON.
While I understand what you’re saying, it’s happened too many times to be something that we as a forum can just accept and brush under the carpet. Tags were genuinely having a detrimental impact on people’s mental wellbeing. Some continue to even affect people today. That’s not okay.
And as for ag leaving. It’s not that I don’t give a shit. I just don’t understand where that came from at all? I don’t want him, or anyone for that matter, to leave or take a break. But I also can’t stop him doing so. Same goes for Shirley. Surely there is more to Moopy than tags?
Anyway, I really think we should put this discussion to bed. Two thirds of people who have now voted have said no. That seems pretty decisive to me.
I know I’m in minority but I personally have never found tags particularly funny, I prefer to work my joke into an actual post. Sure, it’s got me into trouble more and I’ve been called evil, but at least it’s honest
I keep thinking about this, and I'm finding it really hard to put my thoughts together, but I sort of think the way this discussion went (and goes every time it happens...) is a sign that maybe we're not ready to have tags back, as a group.
And I also think it’s clearly a mistake to try to move on without any restorative justice for those who were targeted. Who posted about dub? Targeted Chlammy? Apologise to them either publicly or private (preferably publicly so I can see too) so that at least they get a chance to heal and maybe then this debate can take a different shape in a year.
I'd personally like tags back, but I'd also rather the whole forum didn't fall out over it, and I certainly wouldn't want much-revered members to leave over it. I'm not going to kill myself if they don't return. I've enjoyed Moopy the same amount the last four months.
You seriously think Ag won’t be back? I like the guy, but I’m absolutely opposed to putting a temper tantrum over people’s legitimately hurt feelings.
As for Shirley - same TBH. It’s a shame he choose to leave, but ultimately it’s a strop. Nobody bullied him off and he could come back any time he wanted. If he doesn’t, that’s on him.
I never post tags but I always liked them - the ones in dance rate were genuinely hilarious. For that reason, I voted yes.
But my stance remains as it was when the mod and admin team posted our statement the first time around. I believe we did what we thought was best with tags, but clearly it disenfranchised the people who were most affected by the negative ones. If they come back, I’d rather the policy be led by the posters who’ve been targeted in the past.
Of course the easier and far more sensible thing would be for them to not return, at least not for a while. Kate will just have to let me know when Alex Party is next accepting lives via DM.
I can put up a new poll (I think?) but I would say it’s probably better leaving this as it is. I do not regret starting the thread although I am not especially happy with the way things have gone. Ag, what is going on? Anyway, the conversation had to happen at some point.
Enough other people had been talking about it. And it seems apparent that there were a lot a strong pent up opinions that were always going to come out. I wouldn't feel bad about starting it.
Absolutely not to another poll at this stage, though!
Yeah I think this can be put to bed for a bit.
I don;t think you have anything to worry about @Rita - I think this thread would have been much the same a month ago, in a months time or 2 months time. @lolly is right - there's pent up feeling and people have now had the chance to let that out.
The poll is pretty decisive now but if there's one thing the planet need to learn, especially given the events of this year it's this: if 90% of people want something but the remaining 10% will be disproportionately impacted in a negative way, then we don't just go ahead and do it. As such, I wouldn't have been swayed by a poll going the other way.
Yeah, the thread has let people air their feelings so it was definitely worth starting. Better here where we can all address it rather than as potshots taken across a dozen other threads.
I don't see why the discussion needs to end. To be fair, it was going quite well until Ag, for no apparent reason, decided to leave. If you're ever going to get to the bottom of this, I can't see how ending uncomfortable conversations is going to help. I think continuing it, in the form that others have suggested, e.g. a separate thread and more substantive poll, could help resolve it.
I disagree with Zu-Klara about anonymity. This is not an anonymous forum. We share so much of ourselves, and even if we didn't, toxicity and exclusion is a feature of ANY group dynamic. I'd rather we owned up to that than to hide behind: 'this is an internet forum, stop taking it so seriously'. It was more than that a long time ago.
From my side, I don't actually care about tags. I never read them - not until people decided to use them to attack me because they couldn't handle what I was writing in the threads. If they came back, I wouldn't care, but as Chlammy said, keeping them private only puts the onus on victims to complain and moderators to moderate, which is what many of the issues stem from in the first place. Can we reach a compromise, or if not, at least create a space that engages with and acknowledges the way people have been attacked through tags when finding a solution? Sweeping this shit under the carpet isn't the way. One of the reasons I have refrained from posting is because the tags drama showed me the futility of posting in a space that gaslights you after you spend hours trying to engage their anxieties and ignorance around race. EDIT: (cos I'm dense) - the longer we keep stuffing this under the carpet, the longer I will stay away from posting, I think.
join the club, hun
I said the same earlier and I totally agree! Things escalated YET AGAIN and it’s just not something I or I am sure many others want to have to face when we log on here - this is a form of escape for many of us. Let’s not make it any more difficult than it already is.
It’s a shame Ag left in a strop but that’s entirely different to someone leaving because they felt they had to for mental health reasons. I’ve taken a break due to stuff that happened outside of Moopy, but I can only imagine how worse it would have been to come on and then deal with some of the awful stuff that’s happened here in the past to people.
Anyway Ag will probably be back in a week, and as this thread is in the public view I think there’s a good chance he’s reading this now.
In a way I think it’s good we have had this conversation, so thank you @Rita for starting it. But I think it’s clear that it needs to be put to bed for the foreseeable future.
Did you read my post?! No it doesn't! It needs a bit of facilitation!
Mental health issues present themselves in many forms.
Kala, are you saying that discussion of it needs to be put to bed or the use of tags does?