Taylor Swift - "Lover" [New Album]

Discussion in 'Pop' started by KindaCool, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Jark

    Jark I... know... how bad you want this

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    sorry but this video is an embarrassment and I say that as somebody who is fine with the song's slightly hackneyed but well meaning LGBTQ+ ally messaging

    this tweet summarises WHY it's such a disaster quite nicely



    parading a roster of gay celebrities around like homo trophy wives to announce to the world that you've decided to be a vocal ally now is not really the tea. and while I wouldn't trash her for this, because ultimately a superstar supporting the cause in a video that will get hundreds of millions of views globally can't actually be a bad thing, it absolutely does expose her as somebody who will cynically deploy whatever weapon they can in order to weave a new narrative for herself. there are many music videos from the past year by artists who are LGBTQ or allies thereof which beautifully highlight how amazing, talented and magnetic the community as a whole can be without desperately screaming look! Queer Eye! Cher quotes! RuPaul!

    The sheer lack of artistry, nuance and self awareness on display is just a bit sad, but still I applaud her for getting the message out there, regardless of the execution or intent.
     
  2. wurst

    wurst EVITA COLOLO

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    Taylor Swift comes from a place of Republican conservatives - that anybody could think her spreading a pro-LGBTQI+ message through her music and videos (no matter how insincere it may seem) is a bad thing quite is frankly a bit worrying.

    Like it or not, her promotion of LGBTQI+ rights will reach much deeper than an endorsement from Lady Gaga (as an example).
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  3. Jark

    Jark I... know... how bad you want this

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    I don't think it's a BAD THING - I just think the execution is a total eye-roller and leaves a slightly sour taste in the mouth.

    It's so sad that we live in this world now where everyone reduces everything to a GOOD THING / BAD THING binary.
     
  4. Sheena

    Sheena MAKE IT QUICK, LUCILLE!

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    And this.

    Madonna supposedly has made a video with Drag Race alumni. Is that more acceptable? Because JARKETTE wouldn't be moaning about THAT.
     
  5. Jark

    Jark I... know... how bad you want this

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    Madonna has been working with queens, queers and various other members of the community in her visual media since the very beginning of her career.

    Taylor has never bothered showcasing the community at all in her videos before and suddenly thrown them in all together to demonstrate that she's an ally.

    There really isn't any comparison whatsoever.
     
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  6. Sheena

    Sheena MAKE IT QUICK, LUCILLE!

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    I repeat my earlier point, that she has repeatedly made pro-LGBTQ+ comments and has made donations not for publicity to LGBTQ+ causes. Her coming out in the support of the Democrats was also related to equality, including LGBTQ+ specifically.

    I fail to see the issue here! It's a celebration of Pride month by, as @wurst put it, by a singer whose more traditionally conservative audience makes it an important statement.

    Or it's just another reason to bash someone successful...
     
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  7. KindaCool

    KindaCool Kick Rocks. Eat dirt.

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    Wait, so that WASN'T actually Katy Perry? Looked so real!

    And wasn't Akeria in there too?
     
  8. Jark

    Jark I... know... how bad you want this

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    of course it was Katy, what are you on about now
     
  9. KindaCool

    KindaCool Kick Rocks. Eat dirt.

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    Oh. I misread someone's comment.
     
  10. COB

    COB My Forever

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    The video features both Katy AND Adore Delano dressed as Katy :)
     
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  11. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Taylor wasn’t in it at all, it was all Jade Jolie

    Yeah I mean there’s a lot of pink pound grabbing in Pride month, but that doesn’t mean everything affiliated with Pride is a cash grab.

    TBH i don’t think the song is even necessarily ABOUT LGBTQ+ issues, I thought it was a more broad message about toxic Twitter etc., the video is what paints it more gay.

    More people are going to watch this than a Lizzo video or whoever, so isn’t it a good thing to have all this chatter?

    I notice that nobody is calming down
     
  12. Pipo

    Pipo The devil's in the details

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  13. VoR

    VoR Take it or leave it

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    Is it possible to think the video is well meaning and *also* a load of clumsy, pandering shite?

    That's about where I'm at with it.
     
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  14. KindaCool

    KindaCool Kick Rocks. Eat dirt.

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    At the end of the day, it's still a 'good thing'.

    Even if she does hate gays but just capitalizing on them, it just shows how far the movement has come that the biggest pop star on earth advocates for it and can openly do so without having her career destroyed. In fact, I bet you most people will totally love this.

    How 'sincere' she is about it is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
     
  15. octophone

    octophone WHOLE! NEW! WORLD!

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    I don't see a massive problem really. You can't have allies and shout at straights to stay out of it at the same time.

    That said, I'm fed up with people who think the T in LGBTQI+ stands for "Drag Queens".

    THAT IS ALL.
     
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  16. octophone

    octophone WHOLE! NEW! WORLD!

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    It's probably cost her a whole lot more in red(neck) pounds to be so anti-Trump and so pro-LGBTQI+.
     
  17. Suedey

    Suedey [Women yelling in background]

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    I like the song and the video!
     
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  18. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    I applaud her, to be honest. I don't think it's pandering, but ultimately I dont care if it is or not.
     
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  19. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    This is what I was clumsily trying to say :D
     
  20. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Btw is Ru green screened in? He seems quite short compared to everyone else and he’s huge!
     
  21. POP!

    POP! FREE BRITNEY

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    Jark I love you but stop being so condescending by explaining how problematic this is as if we can't like the video and see that she is privileged white female at the same time. I don't see how this is any different from Cyndi Lauper parading a bunch of drag queens in "Hey Now (Girls Just Want to Have Fun)", for instance, other than people decided Taylor Swift is a bit too self aware and privileged to be able to pull this off. Like Sheena said, she has been an "ally" for ages now.
     
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  22. DanielAr

    DanielAr User

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  23. Devil

    Devil I Need A House

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    :D

    Seriously though, what a load of shit.

    She's made an amusing video, that doesn't just imply being gay-friendly but completely and utterly runs with it and mocks the living shit out of those anti-gay, not to mention the lyrics.

    And she launches her bloody album with it. I don't care if part of it is her cynically trying to grab the 'pink pound' - it's amazing to see such an A List star so blatantly doing it. Well done Tay Tay.
     
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  24. Suedey

    Suedey [Women yelling in background]

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    I mean to be fair, I can see Jark's point - in fact I raised a similar argument about 2/3 months ago when "Me!" came out - I'm sure my comments are still there. I've changed my mind somewhat about Taylor Swift in the interim.

    I do agree with previous comments here that given the crazy times we live in, the more allies the LBGTQIA+ community has the better and I do not believe for one moment that she 'hates' gays or is a homophobe at all (that is just ludicrous). Yes, I'm sure her intentions are not 100% altruistic - but whose are? And I don't even mean just celebs in general or just heterosexual 'allies' either. Unless you have actually given up all your material possessions to work in a soup kitchen or shelter for homeless LBGTQIA+ then really, none of us are truly altruistic. There is always a bit of give and take. She is using her position to positively support LGBTQIA+ people and that can only be a good thing.

    But mostly I like the colours in the video and the song is cute. Also the French fries/burger thing with Katy Perry is sweet.
     
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  25. octophone

    octophone WHOLE! NEW! WORLD!

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    Firstly, that's a heck of a statement. Secondly, even if true, does it matter? In the extremely unlikely event that she turns out to be a secret homophobe who is laughing down her sleeve at the whole thing, the effect and impact of the song, the video and her general cheerleading is, in this moment, identical whether she's counting dollars or otherwise.
     
  26. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Is 100% altruism necessary these days?? Maybe they’re right about why liberals aren’t winning elections if that is even a consideration.

    I don’t care if she’s profiting, as long as she’s not openly deceiving us, which you’d really have to hate her to consider.

    Let her make more money if she’s going to support charities
     
  27. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Is this something about our generation? We can’t enjoy the things we would normally be enjoying because it’s not perfect?

    It’s like Moopy, sometimes I wonder if a majority here would rather it die than change. We are always comparing to this mythical golden age that we will never be satisfied comparing the present to. (And looking at the regularly bumped old threads... really??)

    See also for Drag Race, Eurovision, Madonna, soaps, you name it!
     
  28. lolly

    lolly Rowena? From Kuwait?

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    I'm not sure it's our(your) generation as much as EVERY generation, is it?
     
  29. KindaCool

    KindaCool Kick Rocks. Eat dirt.

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    I think it's a cross-generational dilemma, especially with the exponential increase in technology and social media, that's rising way faster than our expectations can.

    You either adapt your expectations to the current climate or you become a bitter old cynical cunt. Moopy is the latter :disco::disco:
     
  30. Suedey

    Suedey [Women yelling in background]

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    Of course it's not 100% altruistic. Unless there are receipts showing that all proceeds from the song & video go to an LGBTQIA+ charity, in which case I will eat my words.

    And no, of course it doesn't really matter whether she's being truly altruistic or not.

    And I didn't mean that as a slight or insult to her. As I said in my post, it is very rare in general that any action is truly 100% altruistic. As soon as money enters the equation, true altruism goes out the window as far as I am concerned. I suppose I was making a general, philosophical point so I am slightly digressing.
     
  31. Suedey

    Suedey [Women yelling in background]

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    And yes there is nothing worse than entitled Twitterati whose sole purpose in life seems to be to shout "that's appropriation!" or "that's pinkwashing!". It's beyond ludicrous. Let's fight the real enemy here: the xenophobes, the racists, the true homophobes instead of dividing amongst ourselves and bringing down our allies.

    (And yes I'm already predicting the negative response from certain queer corners to the "God Control" video, similarly to what's happening to Swifty.)
     
  32. octophone

    octophone WHOLE! NEW! WORLD!

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    That's a very narrow definition of altruism. Even if we do consider just the financial element, as I said above, she will have lost supporters with this too. But that is much harder to cost and even harder to ascribe to one song.
     
  33. Jark

    Jark I... know... how bad you want this

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    I just think it's FUNNY that MOOPY of all places is gleefully lapping up this Taylor Swift single package which consists of an average song which brazenly recycles two from the last album paired with a video which for all its good intentions still reveals Tay Tay as a huge raving narcissist who has to make everything all about her and on top of that is just fucking ugly.

    Like, cynicism is the default mode here. It's just a bit weird that she has avoided it completely. (Sorry if I'm being too condescending for you @POP! by voicing my opinion (although her being a straight white rich female is absolutely not the point I was raising here, but OK) - I've taken notes and understand now that actual discussion is not welcomed in this thread, so yay Taylor!)

    I'll say no more about it because the song is enjoyable enough and allies are welcome.
     
  34. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    Calm down Jark
     
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  35. KindaCool

    KindaCool Kick Rocks. Eat dirt.

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    Jark right now

    [​IMG]
     
  36. Suedey

    Suedey [Women yelling in background]

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    Ha! Good one.
     
  37. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    :)

    Yeah it was boring
    We do all seem rather tenser than usual though, don’t we? Is it the full moon? I hate when all the gay interests female artists release near each other, it seems to trigger waves of hate, obsession, revenge and more
     
  38. Suedey

    Suedey [Women yelling in background]

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    It's MADAME X.
     
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  39. Diddy

    Diddy Rice Queen

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    She is a dance instructor
    She is a leather pirate vampire
    She is a gay chat forum shitstirrer

    I was going to say about Madame, but I thought that might come across like I was pinning stuff on you. We’ve all done the gay tribalism at some point, whether it was Madonna vs Taylor, Kylie vs ... Madonna probably, Gaga vs ... well Madonna again but also Katy, etc etc
     
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  40. Gangsta Nancy Lam

    Gangsta Nancy Lam Slut's Spaghetti

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    The video is probably more a result of her unholy union with the equally off-putting Todrick Hall than a cash-grab, as she could easily go through life making loads of money and not bothering anybody by never having an opinion on anything. As it is, she's probably put off some bigots, and the internet gays who needed something to quote retweet in OUTRAGE that day.

    I don't think the song is great though. Nor is the video. I would like her to go back to singing about heartbreak over soaring eighties-sounding pop please.
     

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