The UK: The Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Years :(

Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Jul 24, 2019.

  1. wurst

    wurst GONK QUEEN

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    As much as I agree with Labour's policies, I'm struggling to see people enthusiastically backing them in the next GE due to Corbyn.
    SO MANY swing voters who don't really care about politics will obviously flock to Boris over Corbyn. Lest we forget Boris was elected London mayor for two terms in the largely Labour-centric London.

    If Lib Dems do a big remain/environmental push, combined with a young female leader giving a charismatic speech/moments during GE debate season I could see them gaining a huge amount of the young Labour vote/disillusioned Corbyn-ites.
     
  2. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    The Corbyn fanbase has certainly gone quiet online.
     
  3. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    The thing is there are lots of things Corbyn is doing right. He turned up and joined an anti fracking protest yesterday, front line with people who are trying to make a difference. It didn't get a jot of coverage. And I think the antisemitism thing is being widely over blown, and if you're a tinfoil hat type, its being pushed by a pro Israel lobby group because he has the balls to speak out about their abhorrent treatment of Palestine.

    I do think the handling of brexit is short of the mark but I can understand why, and the way they've gone after the lib dens recently has been cringe. I can imagine a big change if/when we get a GE.

    [/mugatu]
     
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  4. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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  5. wurst

    wurst GONK QUEEN

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    I wonder what will happen to Anna Soubry should a GE get called in the next few months.
    From a very safe position as MP for life to NOTHING i'm assuming!
     
  6. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

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    The by-election today should cut the Tory majority to 1. What if someone DOES defect, and they lose their majority? Will that trigger a general election?
     
  7. octophone

    octophone The Electrocutioner

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    Not of itself, no. I mean, Boz could try and sack off the DUP if he could get a better coalition partner but he can't.

    Ultimately, the only thing the Conservative Party are interested in is the Conservative Party. They are desperately trying to fight off a major party split and BJ got the nod because he was felt to be the person most likely to stop the fracture becoming a break.
     
  8. dmlaw

    dmlaw Democracy doesn't work

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    I believe that some of the Independents are former Tories who have had the whip suspended for one reason of another. They would presumably vote with the government in a confidence motion but wouldn't be counted as part of Boris Johnson's majority.
     
  9. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    At this point I honestly don't give a fuck if poor baby Corbyn has been treated unfairly by the nasty right wing press (NO SHIT!)

    If he truly did place party and country above his own personal ambition, he'd have realised months ago that he's become completely toxic and stepped aside in favour of a more unifying presence. That doesn't mean surrendering the party to the centrists again, but working across the board to nudge the party in the right direction and making sure all voices are represented, not just those of the momentum mafia.
     
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  10. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    Not just the 'nasty right wing press' - a study found 75% of all articles about him were false.
     
  11. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    I don't doubt he gets treated poorly, but in terms of pure pragmatism, is that going to go away? No. His reactions have been too slow, he's made too many genuine mistakes. The moment to turn that around was two years ago. The damage is done.

    To be polling this badly, at this point, is nothing short of disastrous. He needs to go, and give the Labour Party a chance to actually form a government, because I have zero faith that it's going to happen under him, he's far too toxic.
     
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  12. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    Bullshit. How exactly could he have reacted quickly while satisfying remainers, like me AND the vast swathe of leave voting labour supporters? The press would have a fucking FIELD DAY if he came out in full support of remain too early, if at all, and that would strengthen Leave and the Tories.

    Lets take Brexit out of the equation. What exactly is so bad about his social reforms, environmental concerns, desire to move away from being a nuclear power etc etc?
     
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  13. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    Shit I really have turned into @Mugatu.
     
  14. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Oh I'm all for most of his policies, but Brexit, which the centre of all UK politics these days, means he really is useless. Besides the inability to deal with the antisemitism shows him up to be a SHIT LEADER. He's a left leader, but my version of left is anti-Brexit and doesn't tolerate racism.

    Fuck him.
     
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  15. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Is he electable? It's the only question that matters.
     
  16. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    We've got an ACTUAL racist, homophobic PM but the opposition leader is shit because he can't logically pick a side on brexit and because he doesn't think Israel is being fair? Odd.
     
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  17. Sheena

    Sheena MAKE IT QUICK, LUCILLE!

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    Yeah, but the fact that AGAINST that he is still MILES BEHIND only backs up the argument entirely.

    I'm a Corbyn fan. Or I was. I do feel lately I've begun to hang my head in DESPAIR at how he's handled things...
     
  18. Kalabaliken

    Kalabaliken Pop Precision Since 1978

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    On paper Corbyn is a great leader. But you can have all the ideas you want but if you can’t follow through with them with some sort of conviction then you’re a fucking shite leader after all.
     
  19. wurst

    wurst GONK QUEEN

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    I mean with a GE almost definitely imminent, I should absolutely be completely sure who i would vote for considering our current government is beyond a shitshow.

    In reality I currently have NO IDEA who I would vote for out of Labour, Lib Dem or Green..! I’ve always been a strong Labour voter my entire life, but Corbyn’s really started to lose me since the last GE with Terri M.

    The thought of having more Corbyn as a weak opposition leader should Boris win a slim majority/get a Brexit Party coalition is HORRIBLE!
     
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  20. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    No, he’s shit because in the face of all that he’s still polling MASSIVELY BEHIND.

    I’m sorry to be a broken record but that literally is the bottom line.
     
  21. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    And why is that? Anything to do with 75% of all articles about him being negative and false perhaps?
     
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  22. Sheena

    Sheena MAKE IT QUICK, LUCILLE!

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    Whilst I agree with that, his WISHY WASHY response to Brexit is by far a bigger contributor- when you have lifelong Labour voters like me sitting there considering the HORROR of the Lib Dems at points....
     
  23. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Of course! And that’s a major problem that’s going to affect any left wing leader. The challenge is going to be how they can overcome it. He’s had almost four years to show he can do that, and he has failed. How many chances do you propose he gets?

    I don’t care if it’s unfair. I care about getting a Left wing government into office again and stopping this disaster ride into recession. If he were a better politician, he would too.
     
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  24. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    What else could he have done?
     
  25. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    Its easy for the lib dems to jump on an anyi brexit stance, I doubt many of their core voters want to leave, and they had fuck all to lose. Labour’s core did have a lot of leave voters and stood to lose a lot more, as well as give the tories and leave ammunition against them.
     
  26. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    @big ron You still seem really bound up in whether it's fair that Corbyn is in the position he's currently in, or whether he could have realistically done anything different given the situation and his personal principles.

    The argument I'm making is that all of that is TOTALLY IRRELEVENT at this stage. He is, objectively, failing. We need somebody who is not failing. He needs to go.
     
  27. cwej

    cwej User

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    They're not 'jumping on an anti-Brexit' stance. Like the greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru, they were firmly anti-Brexit throughout the whole referendum campaign, unlike the Tories and the Labour party who were just utterly broken from the day that it was announced. I just wish Swinson had got in a bit earlier, as she is going to get much more airtime than her predecessor.
     
  28. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    *sigh*
     
  29. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    Who's better? What are they going to do that is better?
     
  30. Ag

    Ag BRING BACK TAGS

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    Don't know. Didn't know who Corbyn was before the last leadership race. Be anti Brexit.
     
  31. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    And piss off the opposite to us half of his voters that did vote for it? And give the Tories all the ammo they need to actually push it through?
     
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  32. Suomi

    Suomi User

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    I can only add my agreement to every big ron post on this page. To the rest of you I say that I think it's naive to think that your perception of Corbyn hasn't been heavily influenced by an orchestrated bombardment of propaganda from the right-wing press. Regardless, what's particularly frustrating is how this shows how easily the left will turn on each other rather than uniting in the way that right wing factions do.
     
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  33. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    To say he's fucked it because he isn't doing one thing we want and ignoring all the other good things he could do is rabid FBPE twitter bullshit mentality.
     
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  34. big ron

    big ron Nude inspector

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    Yes. 10 of those please shopkeeper, and half a pound strawberry bonbons.
     
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  35. Christian

    Christian GOOD BYE!

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    But there's the problem. Corbyn is, above all else, presented as a conviction politician. That's what he stands for. Him being elected leader made me think that this could be something interesting and new and I was here for it. He then added to the mix that the party members would drive policy and not central office.

    The way he's operated since election has gone entirely against that. His voting record strongly suggests he's anti-EU - if that is so, then come out and say it. If it alienates the party and the voters, surely so be it if you have put yourself in the position of someone who operates on the basis of their beliefs. I'd have had more respect for him if he'd just come out directly and said "I want Brexit, for these reasons, and this is how Labour would go about it under me". Now he's sort of hinted at that, but he's also sorted of hinted that he might not think that at all. That sort of obfuscation is toxic. And it's why Labour can't mount a defence against the Tories, as at least you know what they stand for (give or take Johnson's extremely questionable relationship with the truth).

    I also wouldn't sweep the anti-semitism stuff under the carpet. Even if you believe that it was invented by these apparent 75% of negative and untrue articles about him, his response to it, the thing that is entirely within his control, has been pitiful. He has been entirely oblivious to the fact that his behaviour and actions have allowed this kind of behaviour to proliferate under his leadership.

    I don't know enough about the Labour Party to know who could take over from him. I suspect all the current front bench carry too much baggage to be considered seriously, so it will a relative unknown.

    I get that he has his vociferous supporters and I understand why they're there. But they're not enough to get him into power and he himself is a block to any kind of co-operation, alliance or coalition. See Jo Swinson's comments: she'd work with the Labour Party but not with him.
     
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  36. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    Oh my God I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone.

    IS HE GOING TO WIN THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION?

    IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT HIS DISMAL POLLING NUMBERS ARE GOING TO MAGICALLY TURN AROUND?

    IF NOT, WHAT IS HE FOR?!?!?!?
     
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  37. wurst

    wurst GONK QUEEN

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    Yep, from my POV it's VERY THAT.

    I'm assuming we'll get Rebecca Long-Bailey as his eventual replacement, although Tom Watson is possibly the man to unify the party and bring back the trust of traditional Labour heartlands.
     
  38. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    I would support Tom Watson with a Corbyn ally like McDonnell or Long-Bailey as deputy PM, in terms of a more electable compromise package.
     
  39. VoR

    VoR #Justice4JLo

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    My other big problem with Corbyn is that so many Labour voters now have no concept of the party beyond him. I keep seeing people sharing articles with titles like 'Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history' and it just makes me think 'OK, fine, but now you've clearly reached a place where you have no interest in hearing any legitimate criticism of him'.

    Personality cults are never healthy.
     
  40. Shirley

    Shirley BIG-HEARTED BUNNY

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    I want someone a bit :disco: like the QUEEN OF SASS and/or JESS PHILLIPS (come back GLORIA DE PIERO :( ). Rebecca Long-Bailey is so DREARY



    I'LL SECOND THAT!
     
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