Discussion in 'Current Affairs & Debate' started by Ag, Jan 14, 2015.
Stop mocking me. I don't follow Moopy politics.
Oh I'm not mocking you.
I was more referring to the weird cultists who define themselves into it - they're the ones who tend to make such stuck-out bottom-lip arguments like 'YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMMENT ON OUR POLITICS IF YOU DON'T LIVE HERE!' or 'You PATRONISE AND HATE SCOTTISH PEOPLE AND ONLY CARE ABOUT US IF WE VOTE YOUR WAY BY SAYING YOU WOULDN'T VOTE SNP' against people who can't stand the idea of the country getting broken up.
What is Scotland going to do with yet more independence? The SNP's record on devolved issues such as education is absolutely atrocious, but they're in the extremely fortunate position of almost nobody picking them apart on policy because they have successfully dictated that the most important issue is one of identity. If you don't want to be dictated to by Westminster, why don't you prove you can run your country without us, without running it into the ground as you already have where you have full devolution. And how could a union possibly be a vague concept when it's the very thing holding your economy together?
Sturgeon is a smart fucking woman for distracting millions of intelligent people from her party's own inadequacies by broadcasting an emotional message that connects with the heart, not with the head. I wish the Scots would stop being blindsided by nationalism and start thinking with some rationality.
Anyway I'm voting labour this time.
Which constituency are you in Jark?
I don't know who to vote for. I want to vote Green, but Lib Dem is the best (and maybe only) chance of keeping the Tories out.
The comments I make are only because comments like yours do seem like you don't really have a sense of the atmosphere up here. I would probably FEEL SORRY for Scottish Labour if it weren't for the reek of entitlement that emanates from their every other statement up here.
And i'm all for smart people supporting the union if they can explain their reasoning beyond mere economic terms, even better if they explain how it continues to makes sense democratically.
The opposition could quite rightly pick them apart on some aspects of policy but they haven't done that! Labour have gone after them on a mythical second referendum and the fact that voting for them will land you with Tories, and every second of it has reeked of entitlement to Scottish votes. Their campaign could have been so much stronger if they HAD picked apart the SNP and sold their own strengths.
I should probably mention that a large part of my motivation to vote SNP in this election is from an inability to bring myself to vote Labour. I actually wish I was voting back home in the Borders again as it's very close a Tory/SNP marginal whereas my vote will be something of a waste in Edinburgh South West.
I normally credit you with intelligence, but you came out with one of the most childish arguments being peddled at the moment, and one which is so transparently paper-thin it deserves to be treated with contempt.
It's not a vague concept at all - the union isn't perfect right now, but things would be *far* worse off otherwise. Given oil prices, Scotland would be utterly *wrecked* under independence right now, let alone fiscal autonomy - it's hardly a vote of confidence given the SNP are trying to sell this lovely utopian fairytale where the deficit goes down, spending goes up and taxes stay the same because oil pays for everything - just take the Swinney Report which was done *before* the oil collapse and which privately acknowledged that welfare cuts and tax increases would be needed. It shows a *huge* amount of disrespect for the electorate to try and sell some perfect vision and pretend it would be so easy - Nye Bevan didn't create the NHS off the back of just saying 'oh yes, it'll be fine, all the money from the war will just pay for it', he did it by actually laying down a proper plan which recognised the limitations of spending, which recognised that not everything could be free, which was carefully worked out and costed.
And yet the SNP basically try to do the same thing for a nation but without even the slightest acknowledgement that actually, if it were that easy to make things perfect, it probably would've been done by now. And given the utter lack of a plan and how much fiscal autonomy would leave the least well off in Scotland exposed right now, I genuinely don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Scotland would be better off with the status quo Tory government than it would be with the SNP. That doesn't mean I'd fight for a Tory government (I can't say I'd ENJOY voting Tory), but it's certainly the lesser of the two evils, regardless of how lovely intentioned Nicola may seem.
What's your constituency?
I'm in a safe Labour seat, so I'm voting Green.
I'm sick of tactical. Just vote Green.
Usually I'd agree, but the Tory thing IS important to me. It would be different if the other party was UKIP for example.
Then vote Lib Dem and pretend I voted Green for you. DONE
I'd vote Lib Dem then. It's not your fault you're stuck with a faulty voting system (unless you voted no to AV).
I do understand.
Now THAT it what you call a MARGINAL
EDIT: Oh except in 2010
And you are peddling an argument against Scottish independence when we're talking about a General Election less than a year following a failed independence referendum. And talking as if the choice of ruling party is between the Tories and the SNP, which it is not.
What I was saying is that I couldn't believe a Labour supporter would throw their vote behind the Tory candidate in an election is which the Tories honestly could be the largest party by a single seat for the sake of... not throwing a vote behind a party who happen to be your main opposition in Scotland but match you far more significantly in current ideological terms (AT LEAST ON THE FACE OF THINGS) beyond constitutional issues.
This all goes for the Greens too. Pious good intentions are nice and all, but let's not pretend they actually solve anything other than making us feel a bit better about ourselves.
My tactical vote and actual vote are perfectly aligned this time, thankfully (I'm in Margaret Curran's constituency )
No, I'm peddling an argument about fiscal autonomy, which is one of the SNP's main aims until they can conspire to get another referendum, and one fairly likely to come about if they do well on Thursday. And I'm obviously not talking as if the choice of ruling party is Tory or SNP (dunno if you noticed that whole me being Labour and working for a Labour victory thing), I was referring to the choice between voting Tory or SNP in a marginal.
Tatton. It's Osborne's.
Ah - I know it well. The best charity shops in the country.
I can't say I'd be happy about the choice, but on the balance of things I'd be more comfortable with a dysfunctional Tory minority government than I would with more steps being taken towards the union being broken up.
And I know it isn't really politically relevant, but I'm not sure I'd ever be comfortable with voting for a party which at best doesn't discourage and at worst runs systematic intimidation of its opponents by supporters. Especially when combined with nationalist ideology.
I did NOT know this.
Finally something USEFUL to come from this election.
Tatton Park is nice too.
I haven't been for a while actually. Loved Tatton and Dunham Massey as a kid.
The odds on prime minister after the election has been fluctuating over the last few weeks. Cameron was clear favourite for a week, then had a few days of having the same odds as Miliband, then Miliband spent a week as clear favourite and now it's back to the same odds.
The DONNA WINTER AWARD for the candidate with the most name goes to the LABOUR candidate for BRISTOL WEST......THANGAM DEBBONAIRE
It gets better - she's a CELLIST
She's got a look of a young Fatima Whitbread.
Bristol West is a likely Labour gain too right?
13 points ahead of the Greens there in an Ashcroft poll last week, Lib Dems crashing to third
I'm getting a WHIFF of LESLEY as well.
Okay this election has JUMPED THE SHARK
Es deserves a for this.
It'll end up being a milistone around his wretched neck.