Edward Colston and the removal of racist statues

I always took it as blackface but sort of gave it a mental pass on account of it being part of his intentionally horrific persona. In retrospect I'm really not sure whether that excuses it - there's also a scene in Psychobitches where the mother does a Tina Turner impersonation which is unambiguously blackface, but again it's being very consciously played for shock value laughs.
 
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I didn't see it as blackface at all at the time personally, but I can see how it could be construed that way. At one point they confirm that's his actual face, as he uses makeup to disguise himself as a 'normal' looking man. I also remember his appearance in the recent revival was VERY short and you could barely see him, so I wonder if they were concerned about a backlash at that point?

Thinking about it some more, as well as the potential blackface issue it's probably quite offensive to Roma and Travelers isn't it?
 
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When I worked in events we had morris dancers pull out of a show because we asked them not to BLACK UP and they took it very personally :D

You wouldn't think morris dancers would be in a position to TURN DOWN WORK but there you are.
 
Whether the League of Gentlemen intended for Papa Lazarou to be blackface or not, despite what they say, the fact is it's still someone blacking up his face, he looks like a minstrel, and I think now it does look a bit dodgy. I am not surprised there is a potential backlash.

Now I think feigning ignorance as an excuse is not good enough. You could get away with a LOT more before social media. Any anger by the black or any other marginalised community used to be confined to conversations between themselves. Everyone can easily put their feelings about things across and reach many people and then things can easily build traction. Social segregation is becoming a thing of the past, and I think this can only be a good thing.
 
The BBC Comedy Greats YouTube channel had to pull down the Tina Turner Psychoville clip about 5-6 years ago as it got flooded with complaints when it was published (the video is still available on the main BBC public service channel).
 
I see League of Gentlemen trending due to this. I really don't see Papa Lazarou as blackface. He's a grotesque character that wears black make up. It's not pretending to be a person of colour. Or am I hopelessly wrong about this?
There has to be a line, surely, between what's considered racist caricature and what isn't. I suppose it's not for me to say where that line is, but Papa Lazarou isn't a black character, isn't presented as one and certainly isn't played as an offensive stereotype. As @VoR pointed out, the Tina Turner is a lot more near the knuckle, but it's an obscene parody of her played by a character who isn't in anyway sympathetic.
If the act of changing skin colour irrespective of why is offensive, then fair enough. But I think denouncing something (and by extension, its creators) as racist so long after the fact, and without consideration of context, is a dangerously slippery slope that veers a little too close to censorship for me to be comfortable with. It sets a precedent that any actor who hasn't 'stayed in their lane' (heterosexual playing a gay character - or vice versa - man playing a woman etc.) could be considered offensive.

Conversely, Ant and Dec should deservedly be pilloried for the black and Japanese characters they've portrayed in the past. They were conscious, exaggerated imitations of another race by two people with a huge audience. They have a responsibility that's incumbent of their platform, and they failed in that responsibility.
 
In other news, #boycottsainsburys is trending because Lord Sainsbury is against racist statues. To recap, people in the UK in 2020 are kicking off on somebody who doesn't think slave traders should be glorified.
 
Itā€™s tricky territory when you as a white person start saying what you think is or isnā€™t offensive but I largely agree that Papa Lazarou, whilst certainly mis-judged, and something I wouldnā€™t condone today isnā€™t perhaps the best target. Inevitably there will be some knee jerk reactions as we begin to reconcile with these issues.

With regards to the right wing mediaā€™s completely out of proportion defence of statues of racists I feel the same way about it as JK Rowling. Insomuch as if youā€™re getting so worked up about something that that largely doesnā€™t effect you (are DM readerā€™s lives really affected that much by a King Leopold statue being taken down in BELGIUM?) itā€™s because itā€™s symptomatic of a real deep rooted prejudice, and this is an easily marketable way of broadcasting it. Ultimately the angerā€™s stemming from people challenging a system that theyā€™re actually quite happy with and believe in. All the screams of activists ā€˜going too farā€™ basically translates to, ā€œhavenā€™t we given you enough alreadyā€. Theyā€™re happy to humour minorities with the idea that theyā€™re equals, but any real encroachment onto their power and they begin frenziedly doing whatever they can to undermine their opinions, and pushing out articles in the media that hope to recruit others to believe in their ā€˜common senseā€™ approach. Common sense essentially meaning in most of instances ā€˜my prevailing white middle-class world view which is not be challenged.ā€™
 
OK, now this is getting silly. HBO Max have pulled Gone With The Wind from their streaming platform. Can they not see the difference?

Apparently they'll return it to streaming with a discussion of its context and a denouncement of racist attitudes within it, which seems like a decent enough solution.
 
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Itā€™s tricky territory when you as a white person start saying what you think is or isnā€™t offensive but I largely agree that Papa Lazarou, whilst certainly mis-judged, and something I wouldnā€™t condone today isnā€™t perhaps the best target. Inevitably there will be some knee jerk reactions as we begin to reconcile with these issues.

With regards to the right wing mediaā€™s completely out of proportion defence of statues of racists I feel the same way about it as JK Rowling. Insomuch as if youā€™re getting so worked up about something that that largely doesnā€™t effect you (are DM readerā€™s lives really affected that much by a King Leopold statue being taken down in BELGIUM?) itā€™s because itā€™s symptomatic of a real deep rooted prejudice, and this is an easily marketable way of broadcasting it. Ultimately the angerā€™s stemming from people challenging a system that theyā€™re actually quite happy with and believe in. All the screams of activists ā€˜going too farā€™ basically translates to, ā€œhavenā€™t we given you enough alreadyā€. Theyā€™re happy to humour minorities with the idea that theyā€™re equals, but any real encroachment onto their power and they begin frenziedly doing whatever they can to undermine their opinions, and pushing out articles in the media that hope to recruit others to believe in their ā€˜common senseā€™ approach. Common sense essentially meaning in most of instances ā€˜my prevailing white middle-class world view which is not be challenged.ā€™

For the most part the fake outrage seems to be that we are 'rewriting' history and as many have pointed out no one seems to have forgotten Hitler despite the lack of statues.
 
I'm really embracing this very British way of looking at everything and reviewing it. I've long been irked by the way the curriculum seems to only cover some of the Empires more positive achievements and completely skips over the shithousery. Being of Irish stock I only learnt about British atrocities there through self learning and once I questioned that I had to re-evaluate and learn about the awful things the empire did in its quest for wealth and power. I've always said I'll teach that to Ron Jr but it looks like it could well happen as part of his school education if this momentum persists.
 
It's the flimsiest of arguments but it's all they've got and they're doubling down on it despite it not making ANY SENSE.

We all know what they're really mad about.

Poor Sarah vine was almost brought to tears yesterday, GOOD.
 
Apparently they'll return it to streaming with a discussion of its context and a denouncement of racist attitudes within it, which seems like a decent enough solution.
I swear I thought thatā€™s a given consider the time and setting. Will every company do the same for the likes of 12 Years a Slave, The Color Purple, Imitation of Life, The Help and countless others?

The only actual issue has been that those types of roles and stories for black people are the only ones that have dared to be told on film in historical settings.
 
It's the flimsiest of arguments but it's all they've got and they're doubling down on it despite it not making ANY SENSE.

We all know what they're really mad about.

Poor Sarah vine was almost brought to tears yesterday, GOOD.
Iā€™ve been put on the naughty step by Twitter more than once for calling her and her shit family cunts, so itā€™s nice to see her suffer.
 
Iā€™ve been put on the naughty step by Twitter more than once for calling her and her shit family cunts, so itā€™s nice to see her suffer.

If she'd spent more time with her family, and less time reading 'Maybe Hitler had a Point' by noted historian S. S. Thirdreich, perhaps her daughter wouldn't be promoting her CRACKHEAD LIFESTYLE on TikTok.
 
Apparently the ā€˜culture warsā€™ are what sheā€™s most depressed about this year.

Not the 50,000 people whoā€™ve died in this this country alone of course.
Also, I thought the 'culture wars' were a thing that the right have been stoking up, so is she crying because they're now losing the war they started?
 
Watching the right lose their grip on the conversation is very exciting.
Iā€™d almost resigned myself to our progressive shift towards the right, but Iā€™ve a glimmer of hope now. Their voices are being drowned out (Farage being eviscerated on national TV yesterday was magic) and no meaningful opposition is being mounted.
 
Is Sarah Vine just a troll? I've never known someone so often and so willingly go along with whatever the public opinion ISN'T.
Her and Darren Grimes. Just vacuous rent-a-gobs who say the cuntiest thing they can think of in the hope the BBC will put them on telly in the interest of balance.
 
Just watching the documentary on the Duke of Edinburgh, thereā€™s a picture of the Queen playing Aladdin in a pantomime, Lizzie to be cancelled next!!!
 

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