Edward Colston and the removal of racist statues

wurst

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As far as I'm aware all official BLM protests planned for London this weekend have been cancelled to avoid being pulled into conflict with far-right counter protests mentioned in this thread
 

Cloud

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I’ve heard Tommy Robinson claiming he and his gang of deplorables are going to protect our statues from those who want to start a racial conflict. :goodgrief:

Ugh.. well it keeps him away from Barrow for a bit.

Honestly the SECOND there was controversy over an alleged Asian grooming gang (not looked heavily into it but I think she was actually taken to court and found guilty of lying, had a history of it etc) he came whizzing straight over to "fight for justice" and stir up all the local racists (of which there are many)

it is a bit WEIRD that subscription services are apparently the arbiters of taste & decency but I could probably go to my local charity shop and pick up a DVD boxset of any of these things, and nobody would give a shit.

Based of my experience with Netflix they seem to rather enjoy the excuse to remove content.
 

Ag

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It's going to kick off today isn't it? Warm weather, right vs left lined up against each other at landmarks... add a bit of alcohol and inflammatory policy provocation and it's just a big toxic melting pot.
 

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I genuinely wish nothing less than death on everyone in this crowd.

Edit: The tweet's been taken down, but it was the crowd chanting 'we're racist, and that's the way we like it'. Fucking vermin.
 
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Ellie

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Why is it that they’re are ALL white men? I can’t even see a woman in any of this footage. Utterly ashamed when they start going on about “this is OUR country” as if it’s not anyone else’s.

 

Eddie

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Oh, this is all so depressing. Why is it I am reminded at times like these that I and those that look like me are not welcome here (despite the fact that I am born and bred)?

Humanity is still so fucking depraved.

I support the BLM movement but I do not condone the removal of any statues, Colston included. It merely fuels the fire of hatred.
 

Tetris-Rock

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Why is it that they’re are ALL white men? I can’t even see a woman in any of this footage. Utterly ashamed when they start going on about “this is OUR country” as if it’s not anyone else’s.


I mean, we live in a white supremacist, misogynistic and heteronormative country and society. The white, straight men kick off when they feel threatened, and think they might have to cede even an inch of that control.
 

ButterTart

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Oh, this is all so depressing. Why is it I am reminded at times like these that I and those that look like me are not welcome here (despite the fact that I am born and bred)?

Humanity is still so fucking depraved.

I support the BLM movement but I do not condone the removal of any statues, Colston included. It merely fuels the fire of hatred.
That’s an interesting point. I’m absolutely in favour of removing the statues of slavers, but then I’m not part of the demographic that will face the consequences of it.

I still generally believe that the sort of vermin who are currently doing nazi salutes at the cenotaph are the minority. The scary reality is that we have a government that won a majority on a platform of overt nationalism, and a prime minister who’s adored by (and courts) the extreme right.
 

lolly

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From the Tuckered Facebook page

Fuck me, the gammonati have excelled themselves on the thick as fuck front today, haven't they?

Just to recap; They've gone to London to protect a statue in a box of a man who was instrumental in defeating Nazism from no one.

These neckless, full stop brained BIC enthusiasts are the same cunts who will gleefully tell you that A) Hitler was a socialist and B) We'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for Churchill.

Yet, without a hint of irony they congregated today to show their respect by sieg heiling a fucking Cenotaph.

I mean, where do you even begin to start picking that apart? And I'm not even up to the bit where they pissed on a monument to a police officer killed by a fucking terrorist yet.

So many questions. I think I actually feel a bit sorry them because they're angry but they don't know why, and they're clearly very confused.

It's a damning indictment of a British education system that churns these frothing cunts out, compete with their unfocused rage. Or maybe it's a testament to it? Imagine if these twats had a brain cell between them, if they were focused. Then they'd be dangerous instead of a laughing stock.

At least the NF and racists of old knew who they hated and who they admired.

These cunts have to be told who to hate and who to vote for by the triumphant British propaganda machine, and there's fucking millions of 'em.

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Mugatu

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I agree with the basic sentiment but unfunny social media accounts writing in that kind of Malcolm Tucker/Charlie Brooker style cadence where they post epic rants and call people SHITTING FUCKPUFFINS is getting very tired.

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lolly

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I hadn't even noticed the PayPal link. Think all those years of disco vinyl rips have rendered me immune.
 

octophone

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Mass gammon outing in Glasgow today. BLM caught what was happening and cancelled but the gammon still gathered to "protect the statues", the same statues that were slated for removal a few years back in plans to revamp George Square and none of them gave a shit.

 
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dUb

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Lady Antebellum have changed their name to Lady A. after they finally realised the connections to slavery Antebellum had.

Suffice to say, some fans are FURIOUS.
And Lady A has turned out to be the stage name of a black performer :bruised:
 

PercyPig

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Mass gammon outing in Glasgow today. BLM caught what was happening and cancelled but the gammon still gathered to "protect the statues", the same statues that were slated for removal a few years back in plans to revamp George Square and none of them gave a shit.


Are they gonna put some fucking grass back in the there. It looks terrible.
 

octophone

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Are they gonna put some fucking grass back in the there. It looks terrible.

That was idea. Well, one of them. Another was to turn it into a giant water feature, thoroughly misguided when you consider Drunk Glasgow's inability to urinate successfully in a proper toilet facility. "Town Centre Water Feature" = "Open Air Pissoire".
 

Cécile

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I mean, we live in a white supremacist, misogynistic and heteronormative country and society. The white, straight men kick off when they feel threatened, and think they might have to cede even an inch of that control.

Oh please. It's hardly Russia here now is it. You're living in one of the most progressive countries when it comes to women's rights, gay rights and other liberties. I get it, we have a long way to go but statements like yours aren't true and aren't helping.
 

Cécile

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And I may add, if you're looking to end the heteronormative and mysogonistic society I wouldn't bet on BLM. It may help in reducing racism but it is not a progressive movement at all.
 

lolly

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This has appeared overnight next to the vacant plinth

Mystery-statue-by-Colston-plinth-photo-by-Harry-Matuszewicz-Milne-4-e1592215002172-1600x900.jpg
 

octophone

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You're living in one of the most progressive countries when it comes to women's rights, gay rights and other liberties.

Sorry, did you see the front page of The Sunday Times yesterday? The rollback is well and truly on in the UK and if you think you're not on the hitlist at some point you are sorely mistaken. The UK government's open racist and open transphobia will not be the end.
 

Peekaboo

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And I may add, if you're looking to end the heteronormative and mysogonistic society I wouldn't bet on BLM. It may help in reducing racism but it is not a progressive movement at all.

I am no expert on BLM but that's blatantly not true. These are Black Lives Matters' guiding principles:

1. Restorative Justice
We are committed to collectively, lovingly and courageously working vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension all people. As we forge our path, we intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

2. Empathy
We are committed to practicing empathy; we engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

3. Loving Engagement
We are committed to embodying and practicing justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

4. Diversity
We are committed to acknowledging, respecting and celebrating difference(s) and commonalities.

5. Globalism
We see ourselves as part of the global Black family and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black folk who exist in different parts of the world.

6. Queer Affirming
We are committed to fostering a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking or, rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual unless s/he or they disclose otherwise.

7. Trans Affirming
We are committed to embracing and making space for trans brothers and sisters to participate and lead. We are committed to being self-reflexive and doing the work required to dismantle cis-gender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

8. Collective Value
We are guided by the fact all Black lives, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status or location.

9. Intergenerational
We are committed to fostering an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with capacity to lead and learn.

10. Black Families
We are committed to making our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We are committed to dismantling the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” that require them to mother in private even as they participate in justice work.

11. Black Villages
We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable.

12. Unapologetically Black
We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a necessary prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

13. Black Women
We are committed to building a Black women affirming space free from sexism, misogyny, and male‐centeredness.
 
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Tetris-Rock

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Oh please. It's hardly Russia here now is it. You're living in one of the most progressive countries when it comes to women's rights, gay rights and other liberties. I get it, we have a long way to go but statements like yours aren't true and aren't helping.

I'm not trying to make a big, controversial statement about the UK, in particular. The same comment applies in other Western nations too. I used LOADED terms but all it really boils down to is that we live in a society where straight white men, broadly speaking, have an easier go of it. They have the most freedom to exist in this country - one important reason being that they never have to worry about being targeted on the basis of their identity. Just because that is even more true is Russia doesn't make it any less true here.

There is a reason certain people kick off whenever society is looking to address prejudice and injustice. People who gain privilege within the status quo feel like they are being criticised and will LOSE something if anything were to change. They may not even realise it, these far right protesters probably fear losing the baseless sense of superiority that they have over black people.
 
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Peekaboo

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- "Hey, I want to be paid the same as him".

- "Shut up! If you lived in Saudi Arabia you wouldn't be able to LEAVE YOUR HOUSE!"

:manson:
 
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Cécile

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- "Hey, I want to be paid the same as him".

- "Shut up! If you lived in Saudi Arabia you wouldn't be able to LEAVE YOUR HOUSE!"

:manson:

Where did I say that? You're being ridiculous.

Moopy discussions almost always turn into a left wing circle jerk with so much negativity. I was merely pointing out how far we've come, instead of complaining about things that are wrong. Because I don't think that's helpful.
 

Cécile

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I'm not trying to make a big, controversial statement about the UK, in particular. The same comment applies in other Western nations too. I used LOADED terms but all it really boils down to is that we live in a society where straight white men, broadly speaking, have an easier go of it. They have the most freedom to exist in this country - one important reason being that they never have to worry about being targeted on the basis of their identity. Just because that is even more true is Russia doesn't make it any less true here.
Point taken.
 

ZenGiraffe

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Where did I say that? You're being ridiculous.

Moopy discussions almost always turn into a left wing circle jerk with so much negativity. I was merely pointing out how far we've come, instead of complaining about things that are wrong. Because I don't think that's helpful.
In what world is complaining about what is wrong unhelpful. If you don't, how do you know what needs changed? Or are you suggesting we should all just say "Job Done" and stop trying to change anything at all?
 

Peekaboo

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The only ridiculous thing here is trying to imply BLM is not a progressive movement without even doing a 5-second search on Google at all. Would you care to expand on how you reached that conclusion?
 

COB

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I've seen people pushing the 'be careful of BLM and their goals' stuff on Twitter - of the accounts I've seen, a quick look at their other posts confirms what I assumed, that they're racists.
 

Tetris-Rock

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I think one of the points that @Cécile is trying to make is that the left aren't always the best at acknowledging what progress has been made because we're focusing on what still needs to happen. They are right that the status of women, LGBT people and ethnic minorities have in many ways come on leaps and bounds. We should celebrate that more, and I think the reason people shy away from doing so is because they fear it undermines the issues that remain.

It's not a binary situation where everything is either great or terrible.
 

ZenGiraffe

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I think one of the points that @Cécile is trying to make is that the left aren't always the best at acknowledging what progress has been made because we're focusing on what still needs to happen. They are right that the status of women, LGBT people and ethnic minorities have in many ways come on leaps and bounds. We should celebrate that more, and I think the reason people shy away from doing so is because they fear it undermines the issues that remain.

It's not a binary situation where everything is either great or terrible.
Which is of course entirely fair and reasonable. However, to call raising issues unhelpful, well that comes across more as an attempt to shut down a conversation that is uncomfortable to have.
 

Cécile

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I normally don't engage in discussions on here because my English isn't good enough for that. But what made me critical of the movement is when I spoke to a black gay patient I met a few weeks back. We as white people don't know what it's like to be gay in the black community. The hostility is off the scale. That's why I'm torn when campaigning for a community in which homophobia is so rampant. I'm missing this completely in the debate, at least over here. Doesn't anybody else find this difficult?
 

Peekaboo

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I normally don't engage in discussions on here because my English isn't good enough for that. But what made me critical of the movement is when I spoke to a black gay patient I met a few weeks back. We as white people don't know what it's like to be gay in the black community. The hostility is off the scale. That's why I'm torn when campaigning for a community in which homophobia is so rampant. I'm missing this completely in the debate, at least over here. Doesn't anybody else find this difficult?

I mean, where to start... you've dismissed a whole political movement based on one encounter you've had. Black people are not ONE uneducated, bigoted, church-going, conservative entity. Educate yourself.

Incidentally, I think a lot of people in Black Lives Matter would actually agree with you that there is a lot of homophobia in many parts of the black community (not that they are alone in that...) and that's likely why they have added those points on their manifesto about intersectionality. Homophobia is not something innate to the black race. There are many factors like money, class and the dreaded c-word (colonialism) that feed into conservative thinking like homophobia in societies - and A LOT of that is a direct correlation to systemic racism.
 

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