Election Hangover: Snap Labour post-mortem

Where did it all go wrong?


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Watching vox-pops of voters. Soundbites like "I voted boris because it can't get any worse" or "wages have been stagnating for the last ten years so I voted boris"

It utterly astounds me how fucking stupid other humans are.
 
The economic argument desperately needs to be reframed. Conservatives crush it on that front - people just don't buy into the idea of 'free stuff'.

Including healthcare, it seems. :(
 
I really don't like the way that I'm feeling this morning and it's a feeling that seems to be common with the people that believe the same things as me. I'm very concerned that we're moving towards an attitude of believing that the voters in the North and the Midlands who won this election deserve the pain that the Tories are about to pile onto them. That they need to see just how much worse things will get before they'll admit that we were right and let us sort it out for them. I know why we, and I, feel this way after the past few years, but I worry that we're at risk of turning into the dismissive, metropolitan elites that the right wing press have been trying to smear us as.
 
The economic argument desperately needs to be reframed. Conservatives crush it on that front - people just don't buy into the idea of 'free stuff'.

Including healthcare, it seems. :(

That's because they need to stop framing it as "free" - the NHS isn't "free", it's paid for by taxation. But this seems to turn some people off, the whole "why should I pay for your tonsilectomy" etc. We need people to get more angry about tax dodging rather than it being framed as aspirational; to earn enough money to need an accountant to use all the loopholes for you.
 
I kinda see the Northern votes as an overdue and probably necessary realignment of the political map. Labour need to really work out who their target voters are and work with the progressive parties.
 
I'm very concerned that we're moving towards an attitude of believing that the voters in the North and the Midlands who won this election deserve the pain that the Tories are about to pile onto them.

I know what you're getting at but there's also a part of me that keeps thinking of that tweet (I don't recall the author) - "I didn't think lions would eat my face" says person who voted for the Lions Eating People's Faces Party.

There's no fun in karma when we're all feeling the pain.
 
I agree with you that there should be no talk of 'rejoin' for at least a generation. I have faith that Labour will realise that, though. For what it's worth I'm not sure Thornberry is the unifying figure Labour needs either. I'd be more confident with Starmer. But I think they're both pragmatic enough to now accept the writing on the wall RE Brexit and keep the focus on what remains of the NHS and other social issues while rebuilding trust with the people they lost this time around.

Pragmatic on what evidence, though? Starmer was one of the biggest Remainers in the Shadow Cabinet, he got put into hiding as soon as the campaign realised they had to protect Leave seats. Why reward one of the main architects of Labour's Brexit policy after such a massive failure?

I know there is a great deal of opposition to Brexit on here, some of it warranted, but a Labour government is impossible without these deindustrialised, pro-Brexit places. Corbynism has ultimately proved to be a movement for and by well-meaning but comfortable people.
 
Pragmatic on what evidence, though? Starmer was one of the biggest Remainers in the Shadow Cabinet, he got put into hiding as soon as the campaign realised they had to protect Leave seats. Why reward one of the main architects of Labour's Brexit policy after such a massive failure?

I know there is a great deal of opposition to Brexit on here, some of it warranted, but a Labour government is impossible without these deindustrialised, pro-Brexit places. Corbynism has ultimately proved to be a movement for and by well-meaning but comfortable people.
Well hopefully in 10 years Brexit won't be such an issue.

This doesn't stand well for the Democrats next year. At all.
 
Although it had been hanging in the balance, one of Labour’s biggest upsets was the loss of Don Valley, a seat held by Caroline Flint for the last 22 years.

The South Yorkshire constituency had been untouchable to other parties since 1922, but is in Doncaster, where 69% of people voted to leave the EU.

Flint has since blamed both Jeremy Corbyn’s unpopularity and Labour’s Brexit stance for the defeat in which the Conservative candidate, Nick Fletcher, won a majority of 3,630.

In Conisbrough, a hilly Doncaster town within Don Valley, residents who’d switched from red to blue seemed to agree, but were reluctant to be identified in a newspaper. One retired woman shopping on the high street, said:

I don’t see it as a vote for the Conservatives, I see it as a vote for Brexit. It’s the first time I’ve done it. My dad was a miner, and his dad was a miner, and I’ve always voted Labour … I think if there had been another leader, I would have voted for them again.

Asked what it was in particular that she disliked about Corbyn, she replied: “There’s something about his mannerisms.”

A woman in her 70s who has always lived in the town said she only voted for the Conservative candidate “against Jeremy Corbyn”, but did not wish to be identified because she feared being berated in comments on social media.

I’m just hoping that [Johnson] is going to stand up to everything that Corbyn said, get us out of Europe and help this part of the country.

When asked what it was in particular that prompted her dislike for Corbyn, she said: “I don’t like his antisemitism.” But when asked if comments made by Boris Johnson about black people and Muslims had tainted her view of him, she replied: “I’ve never heard him say those things.”

:bruised:
 
I'm usually wrong, but I foresee a long, protracted and ultimately very soft brexit, followed by a Labour government. By then I'll be back in Spain on Irish passport though.
 
Well hopefully in 10 years Brexit won't be such an issue.

This doesn't stand well for the Democrats next year. At all.

People will definitely use this election to bash Bernie but I think it's the wrong comparison. Looking at how the result played out, Corbyn's coalition of voters is far more comparable to Elizabeth Warren's support.
 
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One thing that really needs to be digested is that this is a resounding failure for Corbyn's brand of socialism. It's not 'something to build on', it's not 'better than it could have been'. It's a bottoming-out moment. There needs to be a complete re-evaluation of what Labour stands for and how it's going to connect with working people.

As I've said throughout this election, that doesn't mean lurching back to Blairism. But I'm terrified that the membership will double down and learn nothing from this.
Of course it's something to build on (or rather, not something to be completely thrown away). Shitloads of the 1983 manifesto made it into the 1997 one.
 
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Oh sure, hence my qualification that we don't just try to turn the clock back, which I know a lot of Corbyn supporters fear.

But there definitely needs to be a stark recognition of what elements - beyond Corbyn's own voter toxicity - fundamentally aren't working. If he'd run it a bit (well, a lot) closer, I think that level of delusion and wishful thinking probably would have continued.
 
I have a couple of friends in Dorset, one a doctor, one a lecturer and both said they would never vote for Corbyn (they voted LibDem). Obviously it’s far more complex but both Corbyn and Diane Abbott were Labour’s biggest problems.
 
I agree with you that there should be no talk of 'rejoin' for at least a generation. I have faith that Labour will realise that, though.

Whilst I think this is true (and that even the Lib Dems will probably shut up about it soon), it does also depend on how disastrous Brexit ends up being. If it really is the stuff of nightmares then it might be quicker than a generation. If it is fine, then it will be forgotten about by all but the middle-class internationalists.
 
I really don't like the way that I'm feeling this morning and it's a feeling that seems to be common with the people that believe the same things as me. I'm very concerned that we're moving towards an attitude of believing that the voters in the North and the Midlands who won this election deserve the pain that the Tories are about to pile onto them. That they need to see just how much worse things will get before they'll admit that we were right and let us sort it out for them. I know why we, and I, feel this way after the past few years, but I worry that we're at risk of turning into the dismissive, metropolitan elites that the right wing press have been trying to smear us as.

To be honest I just feel really sorry for them.

They've been utterly hoodwinked and yes shit is gonna hit the fan for them very quickly - and then who do they go to?! Well.. that's when parties even further right start getting involved again. The Hartlepool report from Channel 4 the other day is not an isolated situation. It's really really quite scary.


At the same time I feel like MY view is not being listened to at all and I'm a bit tired of being told time and time again that the working classes of the North are the forgotten people. All but the very wealthy are fucked over by the Tories and I feel forgotten too. And the 48% have been ignored constantly for nearly 4 years now.
 
1. This wasn't the worst terrain possible to fight a general election on (Labour would've had even bigger chunks torn out of its vote by the Lib Dems had the deal been passed with Labour rebels' votes, and god knows losses to the Lib Dems were in themselves decisive enough in seats like Blyth Valley), but it was close to it.

Not letting Boris have the election in September - when no deal was the only thing he could've pointed to to "get Brexit done", which was astonishingly good terrain for Labour - is going to go down with Jim Callaghan's 'Waiting At The Church' moment as one of the most fatefully catastrophic misjudgements in the party's history. As it was, Boris got the time to go get his own exit deal that he could credibly point to to "get Brexit done" and politics go away. Undecided voters wanted to make politics go away, and the terrain being a deal that would 'sort it' vs. a second referendum made it a no brainer on those grounds.

(That that absolutely isn't going to happen and the issue's going to keep rumbling on and on and on when he can't get a trade deal done by July is going to come back to haunt him.)

2. Undecided voters stopped believing our promises, because they thought we were promising them everything. When even all of it being costed can't win you credibility - when there's literally nothing you can say to win someone over, because they don't believe you can make it happen as you've committed to too much, it's fatal. We should've stuck with the level of ambition we had in the 2017 manifesto, let alone been fucking whacking out £68 billion promises to pay for WASPI women's pensions out of nowhere after we'd already released the manifesto. Given that, can we really blame the public for being a bit wary?

3. Anti-Semitism is frankly a scar on the party and an issue (along with the interminable fucking Kremlinology over the nuances between AS and anti-Zionism) that should've never been allowed to drag on and take up as much time as it did, considering how utterly fucking irrelevant Labour Party/UK policy is to what happens with Israel/Palestine.
 

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