How do you solve a problem like Shamima Begum?

Should Shamima Begum be allowed to return to the UK


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Slave

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I'm quite interested by this story - and it's certainly provoking a lot of reaction.

In case you haven't been following, Shamima Begum ran away with her friends in 2015 to join IS and now wants to return to the UK to give birth. She's pregnant with her third child - the first two having died shortly after being born.

She has said that she doesn't regret joining IS and hasn't been fazed by what she's seen in Syria.

The likelihood is that the situation will actually be resolved by legalities around the fact that she doesn't have dual-citizenship and therefore can't be made stateless.

But I wonder how people feel? What should happen to her if/when she returns?
 

Indie

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.
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I read elsewhere that the UK generally takes IS-migrators back, subject to psychological examination and de-radicalisation counseling, unless they've specifically committed a crime (in which case they stand trial). Other European countries have similar procedures.

Based on that, yes, she should be able to come back based on those principles - it would be unfair to do anything else. It's odd that the high-profile nature of this case could drive different outcomes.
 

Slave

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I definitely think there's an air of some senior figures saying things they think will court public favour, despite knowing they won't be backed up legally.
 

COB

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I can tell you that the consensus at my work seems to be "kill her AND her evil baby" :(

It's certainly a very tricky one, isn't it? There's part of me that thinks she should be allowed back if she hasn't actually committed a crime, but she'd obviously be on high surveillance and basically a prisoner anyway. Or is what she did classed as a crime under anti-terrorism laws? Maybe they could fly her over to have the baby, give it to the family/adoptive parents, then send her back :side-eye:
 
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I listened to her Times interview and she was so blasé about everything. Still seemed fine with the idea of non Muslims being killed or at least her tone indicated it. I feel she’s clearly still a potentially easily influenced individual based on what I’ve heard from her so I would say keep her out. I know that’s probably not the PC answer but I think she has no regard for the UK and is totally self serving.
 

Star

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I was reading a thread on a Facebook group I'm in about this (the group is entirely female and Asian), almost everyone said the same as above ^^
 

dmlaw

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We pretty much have to let her back in, simply because we can't ignore international law however inconvenient it might be. I don't see that we should be making any particular effort to help her get out of Syria and back to the UK. If she does make it back, she should be prosecuted for any crimes she can be shown to have committed.
 

VoR

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I've already seen (distant) Facebook friends sharing a Katie H*pkins video on this.

I hate how straw man cases like this get turned into huge media stories to distract from the bigger issues. She's a fairly rare case in the grand scheme of things. I struggle to feel a great amount of sympathy towards her, but I honestly don't feel comfortable with the idea that I or anyone else outside the legal system should have any bearing on the case whatsoever.
 

Dark Carnival

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If she's British and hasn't been convicted in Syria, then the UK should take her back. I don't get this logic of just dumping our shit on others. We've had similar cases here in France, all French. Take your fucking scum back, the middle east has already enough going on without your home-grown terrorists.
 

Slave

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I've already seen (distant) Facebook friends sharing a Katie H*pkins video on this.

I watched about 30 seconds of it and I was quite shocked. She says something like "So Shamima Begum - a nice BRITISH NAME there..." and I just couldn't believe she's been given a platform to be so openly discriminatory.
 
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I think what has got most relatively open minded people’s backs up in this individual case is the way she comes across in the audio of her interview.
 

VoR

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I'm not defending her. I just don't agree that her case should be front page news.
 

Gangsta Nancy Lam

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I'm not defending her. I just don't agree that her case should be front page news.

That's my thoughts on it too. Like, I don't care about her either way, and I don't understand why this one case needs to be on every news bulletin.
 

octophone

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What's really odd to me is how much focus has been on the fact that she wants to have her baby "on the NHS". So if she said "oh, no, it's fine, I've embezzled loads of dirty money from IS, I'll be going private", everything would be fine? Also sickening to see the right wing press whose reporting is complicit in the underfunding and slow sell off of the NHS use it to try and get more of a reaction out of people.
 

octophone

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Yes of course. She's a British citizen. However just pop her in prison. She joined fucking ISIS!

But then the Fail and the Torygraph would be all "THIS is how much her prison time is costing" and that would be the latest outrage.
 

octophone

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It is so annoying how the press focusses on one person all the time.

It makes it easier to manipulate people into discriminatory thought patterns - a combination of a story like this alongside general hate and undisguised slights can build a picture in the less rational mind of the exact type that they want: "they're all the same, those (insert minority group here)".
 

Indie

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.
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No doubt. I understand why it happens, doesn't make it any less annoying.
 

Eddie

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I don't see why she should be permitted to return when she wants. Eventually, yes but if she happens to give birth before then, so be it.

And I think she should be held accountable on her return. This is so much more than just being complicit with the crimes of IS.
 

Mats

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surely someone will at least have the common sense to separate her from her sprog if she does indeed return to the UK?
 

Eddie

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As far as I'm concerned, there was no discernible reason for her radicalisation. She does not come from an impoverished background.

This ideology has nothing to do with being disadvantaged.
 

Indie

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.
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I don't see why she should be permitted to return when she wants. Eventually, yes but if she happens to give birth before then, so be it.

And I think she should be held accountable on her return. This is so much more than just being complicit with the crimes of IS.

Apparently she has given birth now.
 

octophone

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Look, this country is about to tip one way or the other - never in my lifetime have we been on a precipice like this. In 3 months time, either her corpse will be swinging from the palace gates or she'll be on Celebrity Bake Off.
 

Beverley

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I was also pretty shocked when I first read that she had no regrets. I'm curious to see what happens. Absolutely, I believe that we should take her back. The UK has invested a lot of money in a counter-terrorism policy, Prevent, so they should put it to the test and de-radicalise her, or whatever that means. And she's a citizen; there are quite a few cases of people who have travelled to Syria being stripped of their citizenship, and whilst they won't do that here because they can't leave her stateless, she really IS our problem. Quite what we do with her is a difficult one; what did she do exactly? Travel to Syria to live under a despotic, murderous regime? It disgusts me too, but we do need to know what we're accusing her of (both with and without the ambit of the law).
 
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octophone

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lolly

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How can they do that, if it leaves her stateless?
 

Slave

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So just put the problem onto someone else?

Well, they're CONSISTENT, if nothing else :side-eye:
 

Beverley

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She's not.

The covering letter didn't share their logic, so I'm not sure what the government is thinking. It could be a political calculation, or it could be they'd argue she can apply for citizenship of Bangladesh. There's an incredibly Orwellian appeal process though
 

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