Labour: The Keir Starmer years

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?

  • Total voters
    40
VoR said:
You mean playing a smart game and winning back the party's shattered credibility? He must be stopped!
Click to expand...
He's passively sitting out the trans rights issue to avoid upsetting the wing of his party who are not for trans rights, he's said he's actively against defunding the police in the US (he seems to have very little knowledge of American politics) - there are plenty of warning signs that he's fully centrist. I don't think he'll inspire voters or even last 'til the next election. He's just doing well right now because Boris' reputation is presently in the dirt. It won't last four years.
 
I don't love everything Starmer is saying and doing right now, but the point is that it's working.

Whether it'll hold up remains to be seen, but right now the numbers speak for themselves...
 
and before anyone jumps in on me for throwing Black/Trans/Palestine under the bus, answer me this - will a Starmer government be better or worse for those demographics than the Tories? It's pretty straightforward.
 
I mean, do we actually know what Starmer’s Labour actually stand for? Yes I know they have to win over voters more important than myself and other Corbyn supporters, but have they announced any new policies, or any vision as the opposition moving forward? It just seems they’re riding on a wave of “at least Corbyn’s gone”, fencesitting, and stealing talking points from left wing voices on Twitter to use in PMQs.

Maybe they do have a plan for the long run, I hope so.
 
In short he's in favour of taxing the rich, scrapping university tuition fees, strengthening our commitment to the environment, making it more difficult for us to declare potentially illegal wars, reverse austerity and overhaul the Universal Credit scheme. He's also spoken about wanting to scrap the House of Lords, though that's probably a bit pie in the sky.

Essentially, he's a Labour politician. They don't have to be on the Corbyn end of the scale to be quite fundamentally and meaningfully different to the Tories.
 
My worry is we aren’t seeing those pledges in action as an opposition government. I mean, Rachel Reeves was just on the BBC refusing to commit to raising taxes on the wealthy... :D

A strategy of “oh let’s pretend to be Tories to get voted in” just doesn’t sit well with me because then what are you changing?
 
VoR said:
and before anyone jumps in on me for throwing Black/Trans/Palestine under the bus, answer me this - will a Starmer government be better or worse for those demographics than the Tories? It's pretty straightforward.
Click to expand...

Yes I think that goes without saying.

Personally speaking these issues are important to me, and from previous discussions on here I would guess most of Moopy. We have to remember that for most of the electorate, these are fringe issues which have little or no impact on their lives. Elections are won the the economy, living standards and the NHS etc.

I really don't see the point in berating Starmer and Labour because they're not front and centre of every protest march against discrimination or making minority rights the centre of every policy speech. The average Mr and Mrs Jones couldn't give less of a fuck about this if they tried.
 
jivafox said:
My worry is we aren’t seeing those pledges in action as an opposition government. I mean, Rachel Reeves was just on the BBC refusing to commit to raising taxes on the wealthy... :D

A strategy of “oh let’s pretend to be Tories to get voted in” just doesn’t sit well with me because then what are you changing?
Click to expand...

Is there any point in Labour committing to policies when the next election is 4 years away? Who knows what situation the country will be in at that point? If they were to deviate from the position they'd committed to now, they'd face accusations of backtracking and being untrustworthy.
 
I obviously don't know any better than anybody else how a Starmer government would actually pan out. But I do know I prefer having the opportunity to find out over the alternative.

I think people forget what an enormous credibility deficit he's having to pull the party back from. Frankly I don't blame him for being cautious, he's seen first hand how if something sticks to him now, it could haunt him for the next four years.
 
Every time I read that Rachel fucking Reeves is the shadow chancellor I vomit a little bit in the mouth.
 
VoR said:
and before anyone jumps in on me for throwing Black/Trans/Palestine under the bus, answer me this - will a Starmer government be better or worse for those demographics than the Tories? It's pretty straightforward.
Click to expand...

So black lives matter less than the polls? Fuck me.

The answer is that trans lives will be no better and potentially worse under a Labour government led by Starmer in the same way that Jewish lives could potentially have been worse under a Corbyn-led Labour government. The rhetoric is all there.

But don't let any of that worry you. You're only driving the bus we're being thrown under, you're not doing the actual throwing so you're fine. I'm sure. Jess Phillips will still be talking to you anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GNL
octophone said:
The answer is that trans lives will be no better and potentially worse under a Labour government led by Starmer in the same way that Jewish lives could potentially have been worse under a Corbyn-led Labour government. The rhetoric is all there.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's true. On either point.

Even if there are some people, even potential ministers, who hold repulsive views, they will be much more likely to bow to an outcry than a right wing government ever will. Also, taking a longer view of politics, progress towards better policy and politicians will be much better with a Starmer starting point than a Johnson one.

And at Westminster, you still have to make a choice somewhere, and none of them are good. Of the Parties that can actually be elected, you need to pick Labour Conservative or Lib Dems in England, who all have their problems but Labour clearly the best of those three. Scotland we have the SNP but even then, Joanna Cherry says hello, and is especially influential. Labour seems to me the choice you make on that menu. They are also the ones that have the bigger chance of bending to a new voting system that gives smaller parties the chance to get some power, which would be the best structural change to advance Equality issues.
 
octophone said:
So black lives matter less than the polls? Fuck me.

The answer is that trans lives will be no better and potentially worse under a Labour government led by Starmer in the same way that Jewish lives could potentially have been worse under a Corbyn-led Labour government. The rhetoric is all there.

But don't let any of that worry you. You're only driving the bus we're being thrown under, you're not doing the actual throwing so you're fine. I'm sure. Jess Phillips will still be talking to you anyway.
Click to expand...

First off, it’s really difficult to have a sensible political debate with you when you constantly default to the most ridiculously bad-faith readings of statements you disagree with. We all want things to get better for marginalised people, we just have different ideas about the route to get there.

Starmer’s not spotless. I really wish he’d been less dismissive on the whole defund the police thing, but there’s a saying in politics that if you have to explain your point, you’ve already lost the argument. I’m sure the Tories would love nothing more than to paint him as the enemy of our hard-working boys in blue. It’s a fucking minefield.

I happen to think that carping from the sidelines serves nobody, as Corbyn’s tenure proved. So I’m content for Starmer to pick his battles for now if it helps Labour win back the working class voters they hemorrhaged in December. Like it or not, we need them.

As for Trans people being no better off under Labour - yes there are problematic voices in the party on that one, but if you really think it’d be no improvement on the Tories, I really don’t know what I can say to you except that I respectfully disagree.
 
VoR said:
As for Trans people being no better off under Labour - yes there are problematic voices in the party on that one, but if you really think it’d be no improvement on the Tories, I really don’t know what I can say to you except that I respectfully disagree.
Click to expand...
Well what you could really say is something about any Labour policy that imagines a better life for trans people?

They don't have one and won't even comment on it or present a united attitude towards it so why would you think they will be better off under a labour government?
 
Jark said:
Well what you could really say is something about any Labour policy that imagines a better life for trans people?

They don't have one and won't even comment on it or present a united attitude towards it so why would you think they will be better off under a labour government?
Click to expand...

Well for a start, trans people are statistically more vulnerable to homelessness, domestic abuse, mental health problems (the real kind, not the offensive nonsense JK Rowling peddles, I hasten to add), hate crimes and reliance on state support that the Tories have made a feature of cutting off at the knees. Labour have committed to undoing a lot of that damage. The longer the tories remain in power, the more bleak that situation becomes. Labour could do more for Trans people specifically of course, but the Conservatives by and large don't even pretend to care.
 
In other news, look at what's happening in Poland at this very moment. Virtually across the board, left-wing parties are losing touch with their working class voter base and getting pummelled by right wing populists who are getting more right wing with every electoral cycle. Course correcting that is going to be a long, painful process. But if it isn't done, we just continue to hand the levers of power to the right wing, and that's a really scary prospect for all of us.
 
In Spain a left-wing coalition between the "New Labour" socialists and the dreaded "lefties" of Podemos has resulted in a new Minimum Vital Income benefit applied universally to people living in the threshold of poverty (this was part of Podemos's electoral programme and a big win for their Work Minister who is a fabulous lady from my neck of the woods). In Portugal a left-wing coalition of the Socialists, the Greens and the Communist Party have been in power since 2015 with impressive approval ratings. I think Brits are probably more familiar with Jacinda Ardern, who also went into power in coalition with the Nationalist Party of New Zealand and the Greens.

I'm just listing these examples so we don't fall into easy generalisations of left-wing parties around the world being in disarray and the global population falling for charlatans like Boris or Trump. The UK and the US have a democracy deficiency inbuilt in their voting system and a big propaganda machine hell bent on perpetuating the status quo so you have a bigger hill to climb, but it's certainly not impossible.
 
Well fuck me in the ear for having a lived experience and a depth of knowledge on a subject that's inconvenient to centrists. That Starmer would sack Rebecca Long-Bailey over one line of a retweeted article in which she was not a participant but lets the transphobes roam free says everything.
It's not just galling, it's infuriating to see the same people who wouldn't stop savaging Corbyn about antisemitism let that slide or regard it as next week's/month's/year's problem.

But hey guys, the polls. That don't mean shit because we're don't have to have a general election until December 2024.
 
octophone said:
Well fuck me in the ear for having a lived experience and a depth of knowledge on a subject that's inconvenient to centrists. That Starmer would sack Rebecca Long-Bailey over one line of a retweeted article in which she was not a participant but lets the transphobes roam free says everything.
It's not just galling, it's infuriating to see the same people who wouldn't stop savaging Corbyn about antisemitism let that slide or regard it as next week's/month's/year's problem.

But hey guys, the polls. That don't mean shit because we're don't have to have a general election until December 2024.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, which members of the shadow cabinet do you think should be fired, and why?
 
I don't know how many of you follow PMQs, but Johnson's current desperate casting around for a punchline he can stick on Starmer is so utterly mortifying.
 
Last edited:
Ag said:
CAN THE LEFT STOP BICKERING PLEASE!

WE'RE BASICALLY ON THE SAME SIDE!
Click to expand...

could you go back to 2009 and point this out to the country please, could save us an awful lot of bother.
 
VoR said:
I don't know how many of you follow PMQs, but Johnson's current desperate casting around for a punchline he can stick on Starmer is so utterly mortifying.
Click to expand...
I think he peaked the other day with that joke about Calvin Kleins in response to a question about grieving families.
 
Gangsta Nancy Lam said:




So forensic.
Click to expand...


To be fair all Nicola said at the time was that she would have advised against it if she’d been consulted and maybe suggested working with a different broadcaster.

Hardly a scathing smackdown of “WTF are you doing Alex, working for a Kremlin backed propaganda machine???”

She was never going to tear strips off him at the time given his support within certain factions of the SNP.
 
Rosie Duffield, MP for Canterbury, has got a bit of heat for sharing a Piers Morgan tweet and adding "I’m a ‘transphobe’ for knowing that only women have a cervix….?!"

Now she's sharing articles from The Spectator calling it a WAR ON WOMEN and calling on Keir Starmer to condemn the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights. THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY has come out in support of her.
 
Gangsta Nancy Lam said:
Rosie Duffield, MP for Canterbury, has got a bit of heat for sharing a Piers Morgan tweet and adding "I’m a ‘transphobe’ for knowing that only women have a cervix….?!"

Now she's sharing articles from The Spectator calling it a WAR ON WOMEN and calling on Keir Starmer to condemn the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights. THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY has come out in support of her.
Click to expand...
The Archbishop is a Tory Brexiteer cunt so that’s no surprise. Starmer wants shut of this arsehole quickly.
 
This is absolutely disgusting, from the MP in question and also from Starmer. Transphobia should be a red line zero tolerance issue, and I'm going to be severely side-eyeing ANYONE who tries to excuse this.
 
It's summer but the war on women continues. The latest person to fall victim to the transgender thought police...

Can we at least wait until winter to wage war on women?!
 
It should be an open and shut case. The right to fair treatment of people with protected characteristics is enshrined in law. Any MP who uses language which undermines any minority or group should face immediate consequences.
 
That Rosie tweet screams ignorance on the matter. Not sure about her past though and honestly at this stage she should know better, so fuck her.

No idea about the Archbishop. Wasn't he just saying to stop bullying her? Not that I care about him.

What did Sir Keir tweet?
 
Oh pissfucks. It was such a JOY when she ousted the long-standing old-school Tory cunt from that seat. Way to RUIN it :gross:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top Bottom