Labour: The Keir Starmer years

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?


  • Total voters
    34

Soldi

Beautiful like crazy trees
Joined
Apr 1, 2020
Messages
19,489
As someone who lives in an area with a fair few swing seats that all went Conservative in the last election there’s plenty of people that voted for them because of Boris, and any mention that he might have FUCKED THE ENTIRE COUNTRY UP in the past year is always met with “oh he’s done his best!!1”
 

ZenGiraffe

There's nothing grey about my gardens.
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
7,782
Location
Handforth Parish Council
As someone who lives in an area with a fair few swing seats that all went Conservative in the last election there’s plenty of people that voted for them because of Boris, and any mention that he might have FUCKED THE ENTIRE COUNTRY UP in the past year is always met with “oh he’s done his best!!1”
One of the jobs of a politician is to change opinions though, not just follow them, and that is where Starmer is failing in his clinical non-commital approach.

Labour really need a Sturgeon or a S*lmond (or even a Davidson) down South to properly change the public opinion, rather than just following the press and opinion polls which Milliband did too. The reason why Corbyn was so exciting is because that's what the promise was, but he just didn't have the personality or political skill to pull it off.
 

Soldi

Beautiful like crazy trees
Joined
Apr 1, 2020
Messages
19,489
Oh yeah I think Starmer is shit btw, I wasn’t defending him :D
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
I don't disagree that he's coming off as a cold fish.

However, I do think there's a wider identity crisis that the Labour party are undergoing here. Starmer's #1 goal is to win back the working class 'red wall' votes that collapsed at the last election, and he's patently terrified of saying or doing anything that might offend that demographic. But, for a variety of reasons, I think a large chunk of that demographic has shifted towards a mindset that is just fundamentally incompatible with socialist values. Outside of the public sector workers who'll always bear the brunt of Tory cuts, that old school trade unionist base has just eroded and eroded.

You can see it in the last US election too. Even after four years of Trump, the map was mostly red with blue dots - The lower-income, rural white areas overwhelmingly voting for the GOP, while the affluent suburbs and college educated cities came out for Biden. The way the US electoral map works, that was enough to put him ahead. In the UK, that wouldn't ever happen.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
An electoral pact that brings in a PR voting system then Labour doesn't need to be all things to all people anymore.

That would be lovely, but let’s not pretend the previous Labour leadership was any more progressive on that issue than the current one is.

If they do continue to tread water for the next three years, you’ve got to hope that at some point reality/pragmatism will set in.
 

RJN

User
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
7,195
Location
5 hours ago
You can see it in the last US election too. Even after four years of Trump, the map was mostly red with blue dots - The lower-income, rural white areas overwhelmingly voting for the GOP, while the affluent suburbs and college educated cities came out for Biden. The way the US electoral map works, that was enough to put him ahead. In the UK, that wouldn't ever happen.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

This isnt going to change here anytime soon. If anything, its just getting more and more pronounced. That scares me for the UK
 

Gangsta Nancy Lam

Slut's Spaghetti
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
11,311
Location
Hell
That would be lovely, but let’s not pretend the previous Labour leadership was any more progressive on that issue than the current one is.

Absolutely, but it also would have been a guaranteed disaster in the last election to have formed a 'remain coalition' and would have demolished the red wall AND THEN SOME.

Perhaps without the spectre of Brexit, Labour can afford to be a bit more strategic.
 

ZenGiraffe

There's nothing grey about my gardens.
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
7,782
Location
Handforth Parish Council
Absolutely, but it also would have been a guaranteed disaster in the last election to have formed a 'remain coalition' and would have demolished the red wall AND THEN SOME.

Perhaps without the spectre of Brexit, Labour can afford to be a bit more strategic.
I do not believe this at all. The remain vote coalescing would have been much more helpful than what ended up happening.
 

big ron

Nude inspector
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
26,660
Location
Your DMs
Between the current NHS strike and the way the Tories have allocated Levelling Up funds Labour should be all out on attack. Fuck Covid, fuck Brexit.
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
Credit where it's due, Starmer was on good form on today's PMQs

 
Last edited:

Ag

#fuckingcorners
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
200,078
Location
Your womb
Heading into the first vote, post general election, those numbers just baffle me.

Actually they don't. The success of the vaccine rollout must reflect very well on the government. Least we not forget 52% of people voted Brexit. The rhetoric that comes from evil alleged human Patel, must have some appeal. 51% in that poll support Tory/ UKIP/ Reform. The left or middle don't even make up a majority. Not that I expect a left wing electoral pact to happen, but with those numbers it wouldn't even work. *sigh*
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
Yeah, the vaccine rollout being so successful has obviously been a gift to Johnson. Not even the fact that he's openly admitted to massive errors that cost tens of thousands of lives seems to touch him.

Not to be a Keir apologist, but I honestly don't think any opposition leader would be in a much better position right now. It's very depressing, but it's just where we are as a country.

Priti Patel being emboldened to roll out all sorts of draconian laws is REALLY fucking scary. But again, by and large the general populace just don't seem to particularly care. :(
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
I'm suspicious about the Jennifer Acuri story resurfacing, too. It's already been shown that the public doesn't give a fuck where Johnson sticks it, and it's stealing the headlines from the far more damning evidence that Patel has been brazenly money laundering through, among other things, fake Albanian electronics firms.

But once again...

 

Penelope

SMASHING SET
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
31,487
Location
BRING BACK TAGS
Heading into the first vote, post general election, those numbers just baffle me.

Actually they don't. The success of the vaccine rollout must reflect very well on the government. Least we not forget 52% of people voted Brexit. The rhetoric that comes from evil alleged human Patel, must have some appeal. 51% in that poll support Tory/ UKIP/ Reform. The left or middle don't even make up a majority. Not that I expect a left wing electoral pact to happen, but with those numbers it wouldn't even work. *sigh*
I wouldn't put much stock in those numbers. Not only is it an obvious statistical outlier of a poll (UKIP aren't going to get 4% at the next election, or even 1%, and wouldn't get either of those tomorrow either), but basically all the support for UKIP/Reform is wasted too (the odds are very heavily against either of them winning even one seat at the next election).

The really important thing to remember is 1. Labour was doing *far* worse against the Tories last time a lot of the local council seats being fought this time were up (2016 and 2017, though some were fought in 2018, which were basically the only decent locals Corbyn had), and 2. the next election is almost certainly three years away minimum (I've seen speculation Boris might call an election for 2023, but three and a half years feels a bit wasted when he could just have four and a half). Whatever vaccine bounce there is now will be long gone from people's minds compared to the many economic decisions the government will make in between now and then. And governments that have been in government for 14 years trying to get another term don't normally have a particularly great time of it. Even if they matched John Major's performance in 1992, that would still be enough for them to lose their majority.
 

Penelope

SMASHING SET
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
31,487
Location
BRING BACK TAGS
Yeah, the vaccine rollout being so successful has obviously been a gift to Johnson. Not even the fact that he's openly admitted to massive errors that cost tens of thousands of lives seems to touch him.

Not to be a Keir apologist, but I honestly don't think any opposition leader would be in a much better position right now. It's very depressing, but it's just where we are as a country.

Priti Patel being emboldened to roll out all sorts of draconian laws is REALLY fucking scary. But again, by and large the general populace just don't seem to particularly care. :(
It's a bit depressing, but honestly I think I'd much rather be in a country where the vaccine rollout is going well and the shit government is getting an otherwise not particularly important or useful poll bounce years away from a general election, than one where the vaccine rollout was going awfully.
 

Ag

#fuckingcorners
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
200,078
Location
Your womb
I wouldn't put much stock in those numbers. Not only is it an obvious statistical outlier of a poll (UKIP aren't going to get 4% at the next election, or even 1%, and wouldn't get either of those tomorrow either), but basically all the support for UKIP/Reform is wasted too (the odds are very heavily against either of them winning even one seat at the next election).

The really important thing to remember is 1. Labour was doing *far* worse against the Tories last time a lot of the local council seats being fought this time were up (2016 and 2017, though some were fought in 2018, which were basically the only decent locals Corbyn had), and 2. the next election is almost certainly three years away minimum (I've seen speculation Boris might call an election for 2023, but three and a half years feels a bit wasted when he could just have four and a half). Whatever vaccine bounce there is now will be long gone from people's minds compared to the many economic decisions the government will make in between now and then. And governments that have been in government for 14 years trying to get another term don't normally have a particularly great time of it. Even if they matched John Major's performance in 1992, that would still be enough for them to lose their majority.
I wish I had your faith. I agree the vaccine bounce won't last, but we live in very different times. Information distribution is so heavily manipulated. With that the right wing tool of "blame anyone but yourself" is such a tactical advantage. Also it hasn't felt like the same government for 11 years, it's been very disjointed. I fear at least another 5 years.
 

Penelope

SMASHING SET
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
31,487
Location
BRING BACK TAGS
Here are the last few polls before that one above. I really don't think the picture is as bad for Labour as it seems given we're in the middle of a *bounce* for a government.

 

Ag

#fuckingcorners
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
200,078
Location
Your womb
That said, I don't think there's another Brexit waiting to be weaponised. That was 30 years in the making. Lots of mini battles within the culture wars, but nothing has stuck quite like Brexit.
 

Penelope

SMASHING SET
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
31,487
Location
BRING BACK TAGS
(For what it's worth, my prediction for the next election is a hung parliament where Labour don't/may not have the most seats, but are the only viable party of government. The trajectory of Keir Starmer's approval ratings/Labour's poll ratings so far is eerily similar to how David Cameron's/the Tories' were in his first year as leader of the opposition.)
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
Genuine question - has an election in a significant country gone the right (i.e left) way anywhere other than the USA and New Zealand in recent years?
 

VoR

Take it or leave it
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
115,677
Location
The Cinema
I stand by my gloomy prediction that Boris is Prime Minister for as long as he wants to be. Maybe if he gets bored and fucks off things will get competitive again.
 

Penelope

SMASHING SET
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
31,487
Location
BRING BACK TAGS
I stand by my gloomy prediction that Boris is Prime Minister for as long as he wants to be. Maybe if he gets bored and fucks off things will get competitive again.
Keir Starmer vs Boris Johnson might actually be easier for Labour than Keir Starmer vs Rishi Sunak (though I'm pretty sure the fact that all the things Sunak is popular for atm are things he really *doesn't* want to do will catch up with him at some point in his post-corona policy instincts and general popularity).
 

ButterTart

Sex and gold
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
31,324
Location
The Land of Broken Dreams
I’ve just seen a perfectly able-bodied man park over two disabled bays, with half of the car blocking jutting out into the road. I’ve never seen a better representation of the reason this shithole country votes Tory.
 

Kate

she's for the streets BITCH
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
72,626
Location
loony left
So after a YEAR OF KEIR and a visit to a homophobic church this weekend, anyone want to change their poll vote?
 

Sheena

Hang on to your chair, dearie...
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
123,847
I don't know how I feel, to be honest, and had this discussion at the weekend. I don't believe Corbyn was the saviour, I do believe we need someone more centrist to win votes, but I just can't get on board with Keir Starmer AT ALL right now. What's he actually DONE in the last year? Now I know these are QUEER TIMES and all that, but it just feels like the left is more divided than ever and he's sat on the fence constantly.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm going to vote Labour til I either die or something else comes along that actually stands a chance against the Tory scum, but I'm becoming increasingly less interested in what the party has to say.
 

Sheena

Hang on to your chair, dearie...
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
123,847
AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE FUCKING CHURCH
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom