LIVE - UK GENERAL ELECTION RESULTS 2019

BE HONEST

  • I voted... BREXIT PARTY

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I voted... PLAID CYMRU

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I voted... DUP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I voted... SINN FÉIN

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I voted... UUP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I voted... SDLP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I voted... INDEPENDENT

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I didn't vote / spoiled my ballot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I PREDICT... Conservative majority > 100

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I PREDICT... a Labour majority

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .

octophone

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I know it’s a BIT EARLY but I can really see a HUNG PARLIAMENT in the next election and if there was ever a chance for a left wing coalition (providing SCOTLAND are still with us)

Scotland will be gone.

I don't mean from the union, I mean gone cos Boris will start a war with us and we'll blow up all the nukes by accident, thus obliterating the nation.
 

Alex

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How long are you cunts gonna dine out on that for?! :D
You raised it. So you can use it to diss “centrist” Labour but if applied to another party it is invalid ?
 

RJN

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In the nicest way, is there a solution to this? How can there be an option when the Conservatives just want power? You can't be the opposite of a party with no ideals. Everyone here mostly agrees on policy it seems, but there just doesn't seem to be an actual path to a left-wing, or even left of center, majority. It seems like some sort of structural change is needed
 

Alex

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In the nicest way, is there a solution to this? How can there be an option when the Conservatives just want power? You can't be the opposite of a party with no ideals. Everyone here mostly agrees on policy it seems, but there just doesn't seem to be an actual path to a left-wing, or even left of center, majority. It seems like some sort of structural change is needed
Non aggression between Labour and Lib dems. PR in Labour manifesto
 
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octophone

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How can there be an option when the Conservatives just want power? You can't be the opposite of a party with no ideals.

Absolutely bob on. The Tories stand for absolutely nothing right now. They spout 3 word slogans and dish out orders they won't follow themselves. This makes them impossible to combat except on a case-by-case basis. By starting 100 smaller fires instead of one big one, the Tories exhaust their opposition.
 

ZenGiraffe

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In the nicest way, is there a solution to this? How can there be an option when the Conservatives just want power? You can't be the opposite of a party with no ideals. Everyone here mostly agrees on policy it seems, but there just doesn't seem to be an actual path to a left-wing, or even left of center, majority. It seems like some sort of structural change is needed
Voting reform, so a hung parliament resulting in a Labour prime minister. That means everyone can put Greens, Lib Dems etc. as their first preference and Labour as their backup. In that scenario you'd also see Labour and Tories split, more than likely, into the wings of the parties that currently have to coexist quite awkwardly.
 

Beverley

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You raised it. So you can use it to diss “centrist” Labour but if applied to another party it is invalid ?

Just be quiet and let me tease you :(

But to be serious, citing the Lib DEMS in that example doesn't detract from the actual damage that Centrism has done to the world we live in.
 

Jark

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I also think it's somewhere between silly and dangerous to conflate peoples' feelings on leftism with the general sentiment toward Corbyn. Corbyn and his supporters were highly contentious and they became much bigger than the ideology they represented. it was the cult of personality in action. reading the election result as a definite rejection of progressive/leftist values feels like a big leap when perhaps the message was just being delivered by somebody far too stubborn and personally divisive to make it land. if Labour's big takeaway from that was "we need to move back to the centre to win" then they are in serious fucking shit for a good decade or more.
 

Jark

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:D

well, he didn't make it land did he
 

Penelope

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In the nicest way, is there a solution to this? How can there be an option when the Conservatives just want power? You can't be the opposite of a party with no ideals. Everyone here mostly agrees on policy it seems, but there just doesn't seem to be an actual path to a left-wing, or even left of center, majority. It seems like some sort of structural change is needed
To be fair, they aren't anywhere near as bad as the Republicans ere in this respect.
 
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Jark

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watching the repulsively spineless, opportunistic, stand-for-nothing lib dems sink under Jo Swinson was nothing short of an absolute pleasure :disco:

UK politics is such a sad shitshow. hope is a dangerous thing for a voter like me to have, but thankfully I don't have it.
 

ZenGiraffe

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I'm glad the electorate rejected her 'nuke the Formby squirrel reserve' policy at the polls.
PRI_109814319.jpg
 

RJN

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To be fair, they aren't anywhere near as bad as the Republicans ere in this respect.

Well thats a high bar to cross

But seriously, as abhorrent as the Republicans are, at least there is only one opposition party that has a chance to win. The British seem more liberal generally, but the system, or at least how it is being used right now, allows for the Conservatives to win more than the Republicans.
 

Penelope

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Well thats a high bar to cross

But seriously, as abhorrent as the Republicans are, at least there is only one opposition party that has a chance to win. The British seem more liberal generally, but the system, or at least how it is being used right now, allows for the Conservatives to win more than the Republicans.
It's not so much that that fucks over Labour, so much as the Conservatives just stubbornly beimg more popular. To be fair, I'm not sure the system is allowing them to win more than a party which notched up two of its last three wins without even coming first on the popular vote!
 

VoR

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This idea that 'centrism' is just Conservativism by another name is so absurd and self-defeating. You can't hate compromise more than you hate handing unfettered power to the Tories. Well, you can, but it isn't going to get you anywhere, as recent history has shown.

One major reason Labour failed in the last election was because the working classes outside London felt that they weren't being listened to. You might not like what they have to say, but if you just choose to shame them or disengage from them entirely then you're basically betraying the foundational principles of the party far more than you are by not being the most pure and uncompromising socialist in the room, IMO.
 

RJN

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It's not so much that that fucks over Labour, so much as the Conservatives just stubbornly beimg more popular. To be fair, I'm not sure the system is allowing them to win more than a party which notched up two of its last three wins without even coming first on the popular vote!

I am not defending the electoral collage btw! I guess what it comes down to is that we're all generally fucked
 

Jark

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This idea that 'centrism' is just Conservativism by another name is so absurd and self-defeating. You can't hate compromise more than you hate handing unfettered power to the Tories. Well, you can, but it isn't going to get you anywhere, as recent history has shown.

One major reason Labour failed in the last election was because the working classes outside London felt that they weren't being listened to. You might not like what they have to say, but if you just choose to shame them or disengage from them entirely then you're basically betraying the foundational principles of the party far more than you are by not being the most pure and uncompromising socialist in the room, IMO.
what ice cold take is this? :D there's a difference between "centrism is Conservatism by another name" (clearly untrue - centre is not centre-right, or it would be called centre-right) and the reality that offering centrism to disenfranchised voters who have shifted to the right is not going to win them back. you're deliberately over-simplifying the argument to paint anyone who still wants Labour to fly the flag for the left as "unwilling to compromise" or complicit in keeping the Tories in power, which is total bs.

nobody is shaming the working classes in this discussion ffs, or suggesting disengaging with them. entirely the opposite. and if we're talking about the lost working class vote, please explain how criminal prosecutor Sir Keir Starmer is going to get them back. if they want someone who is not a typical London middle class liberal elitist, where does a Southwark-born city boy fit in to this picture of inclusive rebranding?

I say all of this as somebody who voted Labour last time despite Corbyn, not because of him. they will continue to hemorrhage the working class vote under Starmer, guaranteed. he is a worse leader than Corbyn, because he stands for nothing and nobody is passionate about him, only about him not being Jeremy Corbyn.
 
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VoR

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The polls™ suggest that Starmer is actually doing pretty well at winning back lost voters, although there is clearly a huge mountain to climb after the last election.

I don't love every decision he's made this past year, but I absolutely applaud him for recognising, for example, that Brexit is a lost argument. Ironically he's probably more of a remainer at heart than he who shall not be named, but I think it's absolutely the right thing strategically to move on from that argument and focus on damage control and letting the Tories hang themselves with their own bad faith decision making. Because people are probably never going to admit to themselves en masse that they were hoodwinked.

In the wider spectrum, the party needs to have some very frank conversations on WHY so many working class people supported Brexit, and feel disenfranchised by the values Labour espouses. It's not because Keir is posh. Boris is a fucking walking trust fund - but in a weird way he's very skilled at feigning sincerity, on top of his obvious comfort with just telling people what they want to hear regardless of consequence. Starmer is never going to be that, clearly. It's a skill very few politicians possess. (Bizarrely, Trump has it too). But he can win by focusing on competency and rebranding Labour as a party of common sense and social responsibility, rather than the perception that has crept in over the last few years that it's just a party for wealthy London liberals and 'woke' students.

But if the most active, vocal and motivated wings of the party keep acting like he's literally the devil, then yes, we will continue to haemorrhage voters and Labour will remain a divided, dysfunctional mess.
 

Mugatu

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Some of us recognised Brexit was a lost argument in 2016.

It's bizarre to read thread-upon-thread of Moopy libs and leftists transforming into Iain Duncan Smith when the topic of working class Leave voters comes up (I hope those thick plebs STARVE! etc) and then read some of the same posters wonder why the votes aren't coming back.

I think most people on here would be happy to have Labour as a party that espouses the views of wealthy liberals and woke students, they just want the working class to tag along for street cred (as long as they keep their mouths shut and let us educate them).
 

Gangsta Nancy Lam

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FWIW a lot of the people characterised as woke students are people on zero hours contracts in call centres and living in cramped housing who care about BOUTIQUE ISSUES because they actually know people or are people affected by them. A lot of them ARE the working class. They're not REALLY all crazy hippies spending all their money on avocado toast.

And its important to reach out to the people in towns that feel left behind - but so often the press talks about the traditional working class and they don't go to the people in the queue for the food banks, they go to Dave from Macclesfield who has his own house and two cars but has been LEFT BEHIND by loony Labour.

And don't get me wrong, Labour needs to reach those guys TOO, but like, don't alienate the people you already had on side.
 

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