Should people who are vaccinated be allowed to go on Holiday?

ZenGiraffe

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So this is on the radio, and I am stealing it wholesale to discuss here (basically I was too scared to phone up, so I am doing it here instead.)

Should people who have been vaccinated and have one of these vaccine passports that are being talked about be allowed to go on holiday before the vaccination programme has been completed? Saga cruises are currently making this assumption and accepting bookings for our older friends to go sit on a boat for a bit in May.

I don't think they should. Firstly, we entered lockdown as a population, to protect those older and with medical issues from death. This was the right thing to do. However, surely the fair thing to do would also be to exit lockdown as a population as well? If people feel they are being treated unfairly, then it risks compliance with the restrictions, which may lead to a mutation that resists the vaccine.

Secondly, I am not sure that international travel should be allowed for leisure and recreation until the world, insofar it is possible, is sufficiently vaccinated. Again, due to the risk of mutations. It seems to be that the most sensible thing to do would be to eliminate community transmission before non-essential international travel is allowed once more. I am not sure where that line is drawn, due to global inequality, but it would be in the best interest of rich countries to help poorer countries get vaccinated rather than just saying "We've got ours, fuck you"

Thoughts? I am sure we all have them.
 
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Ellie

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Is there evidence yet that vaccines can stop the spread of the virus? As I understood you could still carry and spread it but just had a lower probability of being symptomatic.
 

ZenGiraffe

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Is there evidence yet that vaccines can stop the spread of the virus? As I understood you could still carry and spread it but just had a lower probability of being symptomatic.
I'm not sure, I think there is mixed evidence so far about it. Israel's infection rate is going up despite them being the leader on vaccinations.
 

Iguana

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I don't think just getting vaccinated is enough at the moment, without more evidence. We need a higher proportion of the population to be vaccinated, for a start, and clarity on whether the vaccine stops the spread. I'd have been more confident about it if it weren't for the new strains
 

Ellie

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My very non-scientific brain keeps wondering if the vaccine might also work as a cure for the common cold.
 

Logic?

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My very non-scientific brain keeps wondering if the vaccine might also work as a cure for the common cold.
No probably not. However I think social distancing going forward is going to impact that a lot. Makes me wonder if social distancing will stay in some form? Will attitudes to being CRAMMED right close to strangers on public transport etc change in a post pandemic world? I know mine has!
 

Kate

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It’s got to be no, for the very sensible reasons mentioned so far, but also a more emotional reaction that I think A LOT of younger, healthy people would have: we’ve given up A YEAR of our lives purely to protect older and vulnerable people, and what thanks do we get? Seeing them fuck off to have a nice time without us? NO THANKS
 

Kate

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(Not saying that's exactly how I feel, but I can just see the newspaper columns and social media posts)
 

vespertine

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Don't make me add an "and why?" to the thread title! :greta:

:D

Speaking as a Canadian, this is a nation almost entirely of immigrants and all of us have relatives around the world. We're also far behind the UK/US with vaccinations, and current estimates state another year or more. To me that's an enormous cost. There was also a Harvard study suggesting that flying is less risky than eating at restaurants or going to the supermarket. Of course I can appreciate the irony given that flying is responsible for all of COVID unless @Beverley does a really big sneeze.

I also think it sets a very worrying precedent - employers for instance must never be permitted to demand any health related information, because it would never stop at COVID vaccination status.
 

ZenGiraffe

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It’s got to be no, for the very sensible reasons mentioned so far, but also a more emotional reaction that I think A LOT of younger, healthy people would have: we’ve given up A YEAR of our lives purely to protect older and vulnerable people, and what thanks do we get? Seeing them fuck off to have a nice time without us? NO THANKS
But if you are 70, you have a lot less chances to go on holiday than if you're 20, so is it fair to deny them one of their limited years?
 

Kate

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I also think it sets a very worrying precedent - employers for instance must never be permitted to demand any health related information, because it would never stop at COVID vaccination status.
So you're actually saying no? :D
 

Soldi

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I’m sort of with Kate in the sense that we should wait until there’s more vaccinated/we know more scientifically about it all but I’m more than happy to stop the anti-vaxer cunts from going on holiday/to concerts/shops etc.
 

Kate

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But if you are 70, you have a lot less chances to go on holiday than if you're 20, so is it fair to deny them one of their limited years?
Fair comment. But try telling it to SUN READER BARRY who's FUMMIN about being denied his annual week in Torremolinos AGAIN while that mean old cow Dorothy next door gets to go to Benidorm.
 

ZenGiraffe

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Speaking as a Canadian, this is a nation almost entirely of immigrants and all of us have relatives around the world. We're also far behind the UK/US with vaccinations, and current estimates state another year give or take. That really is an enormous cost.
But the cost of a new vaccine resistant strain would be so much higher. I don't think this is a trade off worth making. If it is for funerals, end of life care etc. I think the rules can be relaxed, but seeing your cousin for a week just because I think is fair to wait until things are safer.

I also think it sets a very worrying precedent - employers for instance must never be permitted to demand any health related information, because it would never stop at COVID vaccination status.
I do have sympathy for this, and certainly private companies should never dictate this kind of thing. But the state is accountable to its citizens, and I think in the interests of the population as a whole a Vaccine passport would be in the public interest.
 

vespertine

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But the cost of a new vaccine resistant strain would be so much higher. I don't think this is a trade off worth making. If it is for funerals, end of life care etc. I think the rules can be relaxed, but seeing your cousin for a week just because I think is fair to wait until things are safer.

I generally agree with that - but at the moment there's nothing like that here, we've been outright banned from flying to 'sunny' destinations. If my mother has a stroke tomorrow I can't go see her.
 

RJN

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No now, for all the reasons stated. Once vaccines are easily attainable to everyone, maybe yes to encourage people who are skeptical to get one
 
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Ag

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No. Should be fair for everyone who has had their lives turned upside down. Also the mass vaccination is yet to be proven as fully successful.
 

Phoenix

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Yes and no, I think people should be responsible and only travel when needed but that’s not how things work because people are selfish.

Also the vaccine does not stop you from spreading the virus as far as I know so traveling to have fun and spread disease is not nice.
 

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