Sia makes a film and a related discussion about autism

Iguana

Iguana

If I only could...
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Sia has co-written, directed and produced a new film, Music, with music by Sia. Due for release February 2021. One of the lead characters is called Zu, a "drug dealer and self-saboteur" (!).



Zu (Kate Hudson) finds herself the sole guardian of her teenaged, autistic half-sister, Music (Maddie Ziegler). Zu is a free spirit barely able to take care of herself, let alone her sister; Zu struggles with this new responsibility, but soon learns that life’s obstacles are made easier with a little help from a friend, Ebo (Leslie Odom Jr.), a neighbor whose own family story makes him someone Zu can learn from and rely upon. The film explores the tenuous bonds that hold us together and imagines a world where those bonds can be strengthened in times of great challenge. Fantasy musical sequences show how the title character views the world.
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I have no doubt Sia's heart is in the right place, but she's not off to a great start with the autistic community.

When questioned about why she chose to have neuro-typical Maddie in the role of the autistic girl, Sia responded:



...which comes across a bit flippant in an 'I tried but she was autistic so it wasn't going to work' kind of way.

She then started getting a bit shitty:









She has a point that we maybe should wait to see the film before we judge. But I don't think this is going to end very well.
 
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FUCK EM. She’s obviously frustrated by these by-the-numbers virtue signalling social media pile ons and WHO CAN BLAME HER. People have far too much time in their hands, twitter’s a CESS PIT, I don’t know why anyone even BOTHERS WITH IT anymore.
 
I'm sure the backlash wouldn't have been as bad if she hadn't have cast that bloody Maddie girl AGAIN. (I don't believe for a second she was her second choice).

I'm not comfortable with an able bodied person acting traits of someone who genuinely suffers, and if the character is mute it does sound a bit like they're going down the 'characterisation' route of what an autistic person is. I.e. the 'cutesy' side of autism.

The debate recently about gay/straight actors playing gay/straight roles has got a bit BIGGER recently and that one is a bit SILLY. Acting is literally you playing a role that isn't you.

I don't think Sia is a terrible person for doing this, but it's not very sensitive and her replies above are... Not good.
 
I think the gay/straight actors playing vice versa is quite different compared to a non-disabled person playing a character with a disability. But equally each movie/show should be cast on who’s the best actor/actress to play said character rather than trying to tick things off an equalities list.
 
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Soldi said:
I think the gay/straight actors playing vice versa is quite different compared to an able bodied person playing a character with a disability. But equally each movie/show should be cast on who’s the best actor/actress to play said character rather than trying to tick things off an equalities list.
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The best actor/actress talk is great in a perfect world where everyone has access to the same opportunities. Which is far from being the case. Remember people, equity not equality.
 
Dark Carnival said:
The best actor/actress talk is great in a perfect world where everyone has access to the same opportunities. Which is far from being the case. Remember people, equity not equality.
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Oh definitely! Which is why it makes this particular case a bit more tricky. I think the point I was trying to make was that some minority groups are more likely to get roles than other minority groups. There are roles that actors with certain disabilities/conditions can’t do, and there isn’t the choice there.
 
Why would Kate Hudson shave her head if she knew she had ears like that?
 
Are people still saying actor/actress just in case it isn’t totally clear that women are included?
 
I don't understand, can you explain? I'm just saying that autism isn't a physical disability.
 
Any chance someone could just tell us the correct term to use so we don’t make the same mistake in future, guys?
 
funky and I had a little chat about this in the cancellation thread last night

Much as I tend to side with the ‘mob’ when I see a cancellation brewing on Twitter, I do think the most important thing is to listen to people with direct experience of autism so I will do more of that (thanks for sharing your friend’s perspective, Iggy) and less PONTIFICATING

some of Sia’s replies though... GIRL.
 
Having watched too many cis actors playing trans characters, I find it impossible not to be sympathetic here.

I'm neurodiverse - was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 7 but in those days it was just called being "hyperactive" and they thought you grew out of it. But I still don't feel properly qualified to wade in on this. It's too complex a subject and I don't really give a shit about Sia.
 
COB said:
I don't understand, can you explain? I'm just saying that autism isn't a physical disability.
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Autism is neurological but it also manifests itself for many people in physical ways. I don't understand how it isn't physical?

My autistic friend Sara can't go out right now because sunlight physically hurts her. The way she processes sensory input is so extreme that it impacts her both neurologically and physiologically. If her neighbour is drilling next door, it makes her physically sick. In her own words, she isn't able to function physically in a way that a neurotypical person would. To ignore that doesn't really help her
 
Soldi said:
Any chance someone could just tell us the correct term to use so we don’t make the same mistake in future, guys?
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Neurotypical is probably the best term to use, as several people have already mentioned.
Iguana said:
Autism is neurological but it also manifests itself for many people in physical ways. I don't understand how it isn't physical?

My autistic friend Sara can't go out right now because sunlight physically hurts her. The way she processes sensory input is so extreme that it impacts her both neurologically and physiologically. If her neighbour is drilling next door, it makes her physically sick. In her own words, she isn't able to function physically in a way that a neurotypical person would. To ignore that doesn't really help her
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I appreciate that point of view. I hadn't considered that, and was coming from the perspective of autistic friends of mine who have specifically taken umbrage at this before - they feel like it lumps them in as "disabled people" with (for example) people with missing limbs, cerebral palsy etc when their needs are wildly different.
 
Iguana said:
My autistic friend Sara can't go out right now because sunlight physically hurts her. The way she processes sensory input is so extreme that it impacts her both neurologically and physiologically. If her neighbour is drilling next door, it makes her physically sick. In her own words, she isn't able to function physically in a way that a neurotypical person would. To ignore that doesn't really help her
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I think people are generally unfamiliar with autism having that kind of impact on someone. I certainly am. I think my generation's impression was formed by "Rain Man" and remains that of a quiet loner with debilitating obsessions.
 
COB said:
Neurotypical is probably the best term to use, as several people have already mentioned.

I appreciate that point of view. I hadn't considered that, and was coming from the perspective of autistic friends of mine who have specifically taken umbrage at this before - they feel like it lumps then in as "disabled people" with (for example) people with missing limbs, cerebral palsy etc when their needs are wildly different.
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I appreciate that too, I think there are going to be different views within the autistic community. I just know it's a term that Sara uses and in her experience it's not problematic for the reasons I outlined above.
 
octophone said:
I think people are generally unfamiliar with autism having that kind of impact on someone. I certainly am. I think my generation's impression was formed by "Rain Man" and remains that of a quiet loner with debilitating obsessions.
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Rain Man specifically stopped Sara being diagnosed for years, because she felt "I'm not like that so I'm not autistic". That's really why there's so much anger about Sia's portrayal of autism, because it continues to spread a perception that could actually stop people from realising they're autistic
 
octophone said:
I think people are generally unfamiliar with autism having that kind of impact on someone. I certainly am. I think my generation's impression was formed by "Rain Man" and remains that of a quiet loner with debilitating obsessions.
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Very much so

Unfortunately some people still stick with that and maintain the belief that somehow it makes them enlightened.
 
Iguana said:
Rain Man specifically stopped Sara being diagnosed for years, because she felt "I'm not like that so I'm not autistic". That's really why there's so much anger about Sia's portrayal of autism, because it continues to spread a perception that could actually stop people from realising they're autistic
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Got you. That makes perfect sense.
 
The best way someone described autism to me was:

You have your senses, taste, touch, smell, sight, hearing, and two others - how well you know your position in a room compared to something else (proprioception) and how well you know you're own centre of gravity and how to position yourself (vestibular). For an autistic person those senses aren't on the same level as a neutrotypical person. They can be over or undersensitive and this can be static or fluctuate over time.

Every autistic person is extremely different and some face real challenges and hardships every day. I'm probably most offended at Sia's characterisation of an autistic person as someone who (presumably) is going to seem neutrotypical on the outside, but just be "mute" and I'm guessing "loves music". Autism is much deeper and challenging than that. That to me is where the offence lies.

The A Word on BBC where the child was played by an autistic boy portrayed life with an autistic boy very accurately and sensitively. Yes I'm jumping to conclusions here, but this film strikes me that it won't. Happy to take it back if I'm wrong!
 
Tisch said:
The best way someone described autism to me was:

You have your senses, taste, touch, smell, sight, hearing, and two others - how well you know your position in a room compared to something else (proprioception) and how well you know you're own centre of gravity and how to position yourself (vestibular). For an autistic person those senses aren't on the same level as a neutrotypical person. They can be over or undersensitive and this can be static or fluctuate over time.

Every autistic person is extremely different and some face real challenges and hardships every day. I'm probably most offended at Sia's characterisation of an autistic person as someone who (presumably) is going to seem neutrotypical on the outside, but just be "mute" and I'm guessing "loves music". Autism is much deeper and challenging than that. That to me is where the offence lies.

The A Word on BBC where the child was played by an autistic boy portrayed life with an autistic boy very accurately and sensitively. Yes I'm jumping to conclusions here, but this film strikes me that it won't. Happy to take it back if I'm wrong!
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I don't think the actor on The A Word was autistic, I remember it being commented on at some point. He would have been very young at the time of the first season though.

There was definitely a bit of a backlash regarding Atypical, another show featuring a central character with autism and a neurotypical actor. Following this in the second season they introduced autistic actors in supporting roles.
 
Lucille said:
FUCK EM. She’s obviously frustrated by these by-the-numbers virtue signalling social media pile ons and WHO CAN BLAME HER. People have far too much time in their hands, twitter’s a CESS PIT, I don’t know why anyone even BOTHERS WITH IT anymore.
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Sadly I’m in agreement here. She’s getting a hard time for not doing ENOUGH, because picking a fight with someone who’s trying to be an ally is a lot easier than fighting a real battle.
If we’re going to start telling actors to ‘stay in their lane’ then I think we’re entirely missing the point of the profession and we’re going to have to retrospectively cancel a hell of a lot of people. And this is all or nothing; we can’t criticise someone for playing autistic and then say it’s totally fine for a gay actor to play a straight character. They’re either both fine or they’re both not or we’re putting ourselves in a position where what’s acceptable is dictated by online lynch mobs, whose end game is to never find anything acceptable under any circumstances.

While I’m burning bridges I fall under the banner of neurodivergence but I wouldn’t want the term to be applied to me. I feel like it trivialises things which shouldn’t be trivialised.
 
Iguana said:
Rain Man specifically stopped Sara being diagnosed for years, because she felt "I'm not like that so I'm not autistic". That's really why there's so much anger about Sia's portrayal of autism, because it continues to spread a perception that could actually stop people from realising they're autistic
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Not disagreeing, but why is it Sia’s responsibility to represent the full spectrum of autism? Rain Man was quite clearly about a specific man with a specific condition. I totally understand why this affected your friend. That’s unfortunate. But I’m not a fan of this growing trend of pinpointing all the blame on specific people just because they are famous. Sia is taking an awful lot of credit and an awful lot of blame for a much wider problem. I think she’s handled it badly but I understand her frustration.
 
ButterTart said:
Sadly I’m in agreement here. She’s getting a hard time for not doing ENOUGH, because picking a fight with someone who’s trying to be an ally is a lot easier than fighting a real battle.
If we’re going to start telling actors to ‘stay in their lane’ then I think we’re entirely missing the point of the profession and we’re going to have to retrospectively cancel a hell of a lot of people. And this is all or nothing; we can’t criticise someone for playing autistic and then say it’s totally fine for a gay actor to play a straight character. They’re either both fine or they’re both not or we’re putting ourselves in a position where what’s acceptable is dictated by online lynch mobs, whose end game is to never find anything acceptable under any circumstances.

While I’m burning bridges I fall under the banner of neurodivergence but I wouldn’t want the term to be applied to me. I feel like it trivialises things which shouldn’t be trivialised.
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100% all of this.
 
Yeah I just don't get this debate, does the actor portraying any condition or disorder have to have HAD IT first? Should we have checked in with Emma Corrin to make sure she's had an eating disorder before portraying Lady Di? :D It's nonsense. And not every condition is visible nor is everyone out about theirs, so what are we trying to achieve?

It's much more important that the portrayal be respectful and accurate, which it sounds like Sia's checked in with the experts and is doing her best.
 
As someone who works with autistic young people, I can understand why casting an autistic person could be a disaster. The sensory overload of your average film set would be overwhelming for many autistic people, not to mention a whole raft of other issues.

I think it’s kind of silly to go down the route of every character having to be played by a real life representation.

Although MORE GAYS in Hollywood please!
 
Late to this cancellation but “Maybe you’re just a bad actor” is quite funny though
 
When there's very very little representation, what little there is matters so much more.

I don't think anyone is asking for that one film to tell everyone everything there is to know about autism. What is being asked for is an understanding of the misconceptions, an acknowledgement that the constant anti-vax scaremongering has created an idea in people's minds about autism (and that it is the worst thing that could ever happen to your child, short of being inducted into a leftist anti-fa trans-cult, that is) and how autistic people are persistently erased from their own narratives due to a perception that they can't communicate effectively.

Sia's answers do nothing to quell these concerns. She may well have consulted carefully and written well but the kneejerk fuck-you responses don't speak for that.
 
And to think my parents just put me into Sunday School :(
 
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