Is Moopy over Jeremy Corbyn?

Over or under?

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I was never completely under him, as it were but his absolute refusal to listen to Labour's membership is what's behind their recent failure. They have to get shot of him before the Lib Dems resurge far enough to take their vote because that is a much greater risk to Labour than it is to the Tories.
 
Yes, I think I am. I like most of his policies but it's feeling increasingly that he's the biggest obstacle to a genuinely left wing government being elected in this country. His equivocation over Brexit is driving me mad and it should have been obvious for a long time that it just isn't working. He needs to go and be replaced with Emily Thornberry pronto.
 
Present polling suggests he's quite likely to be the next PM in some kind of coalition. The upcoming by election should be interesting.
 
He has been infuriating regarding Brexit. It’s odd because the policies he presented during the general election were radical and I thought quite aspirational. But he seems so adverse to doing the same on Brexit.

He’s a very good campaigner but doesn’t seem that interested in (or being good at) being a leader, which is the biggest issue
 
It seems like he's good at the things that he genuinely cares about but he's really bad at faking it when he doesn't care very much about a particular issue. I've never thought that he actually wants to leave the EU but I don't think he's all that bothered either way and resents having to spend time on it.
 
Utterly useless. I'll almost be irritated if he manages to fail upwards into Premiership just because the other side is even worse.
 
Genuine question - what *has* he achieved successfully?

It really feels to me like the whole Momentum thing - and I do think it's great that young lefties are fired up, even if it really feels like the majority of those are starting to turn on him too now - came from people projecting their hopes for the kind of leader he'd be onto him, based on his history as a renegade MP, rather than anything he actually DID after (accidentally) winning the leadership election.
 
On paper I still really like him. I know his strong support will argue that we should look past Brexit, but sadly I personally can't. I'm very vested in Europe and EU membership, it's such a big issue to me. I understand that a lot of his radical reform would be hindered by the EU but even removing my personal interests there is no doubt that now Brexit is a right-wing endeavour, and I can not and will not get behind it, even begrudgingly.

I'd love him to come out and change course but I sadly think its too late.
 
VoR said:
Genuine question - what *has* he achieved successfully?

It really feels to me like the whole Momentum thing - and I do think it's great that young lefties are fired up, even if it really feels like the majority of those are starting to turn on him too now - came from people projecting their hopes for the kind of leader he'd be onto him, based on his history as a renegade MP, rather than anything he actually DID after (accidentally) winning the leadership election.
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EU elections aside, what could he have achieved?
 
Limiting the Tories to a coalition government at the 2017 election was something of an achievement. At the very least, I don't think any of us expected it before the exit poll came out.
 
big ron said:
EU elections aside, what could he have achieved?
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Not spending four years trailing a disastrous, moribund Tory government in the polls by misjudging the mood of the country at literally every turn?
 
dmlaw said:
Limiting the Tories to a coalition government at the 2017 election was something of an achievement. At the very least, I don't think any of us expected it before the exit poll came out.
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That's the bit that annoys me the most. HE STILL LOST! He just lost less badly than everyone expected!
 
He was meant to lose. The election was only called because Theresa May expected him to lose. Losing less badly than you were supposed to is still an achievement, even if it is one that he has utterly failed to follow up on.
 
dmlaw said:
He was meant to lose. The election was only called because Theresa May expected him to lose. Losing less badly than you were supposed to is still an achievement, even if it is one that he has utterly failed to follow up on.
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The opposition is meant to lose every election. Yes, May totally ballsed it up but are we honestly saying that NOBODY ELSE in the Labour party could have done any better? Or even built on the momentum more successfully after the fact?

If that's the case I really do despair.
 
I'm not saying either of those things and I think that we urgently need a new Labour leader too. You asked what he has achieved and preventing the Tories from getting a majority of 50-100 in that election IS an achievement, however much we'd all like Labour to have done better.

If The Tories did have that majority, we'd be out of the EU already and whoever was in charge would have another three years to do whatever horrible stuff they wanted without even having to think about a Heneral Election.
 
That's fair, but very few governments survive three election cycles - even abbreviated ones - with a commanding majority. I don't think it speaks much to his skill as a politician so much as it does to how deeply Brexit has split the country and damaged the Conservatives.
 
VoR said:
Not spending four years trailing a disastrous, moribund Tory government in the polls by misjudging the mood of the country at literally every turn?
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Yeah I agree that in any other time that would have been an abject failure, these are strange times though
 
Brexit was shit but his response to the antisemitism was fucking disgusting. That should have been condemned and buried straight away.
 
Let's remove him from a banner and replace in with a picture of Emily Thornberry. If you come back @Mugatu ?
 
Pretty much.

I just can't deal with the useless response to Brexit, the constant fence sitting or the GENERALLY BEING RUBBISH AS OPPOSITION. I still think he's a good bloke, though.

IF HE'S ALRIGHT BY DIANE...
 
This protecting sex pest Prescott junior is another thing to add to the list of his ineptitude
 
He's not perfect, and my views on Brexit don't match with his, but we have over four million children growing up in poverty in this country, and vital services have been decimated - he's the only political leader in England foregrounding these facts, and yet when he does, the press and the #FPBE freaks weigh in that it's another missed opportunity to talk about fucking Brexit again.

There are probably people in Labour who would be better as a leader at this point, but I think he's well-meaning.
 
(I can't believe I've had to have basically every single possible view on Jeremy Corbyn over the last four years at the exact moment each one was the least popular opinion to have.)

(Anyway even if I no longer stand by most of it I FUCKING WARNED YOU ALL)
 
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I say leave Corbyn in the banner. He's the only male there. I suppose unless the safety crocodile is male.
 
VoR said:
The opposition is meant to lose every election
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This just isn't true at all on any political or statistical level. They're not 'meant' to lose. Yes, the others have a head start, but votes against the incumbent are common throughout history, which is why British leadership has changed every 8 years or so (and therefore pretty much every other election) for the last century.
 
cwej said:
This just isn't true at all on any political or statistical level. They're not 'meant' to lose. Yes, the others have a head start, but votes against the incumbent are common throughout history, which is why British leadership has changed every 8 years or so (and therefore pretty much every other election) for the last century.
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I think VoR possibly meant the opposition is meant to lose every *snap* election? I mean it's fairly rare for governments to call elections that they expect oppositions to win unless they've been forced to by the term limit expiring/no longer being able to govern.
 
VoR said:
That's the bit that annoys me the most. HE STILL LOST! He just lost less badly than everyone expected!
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I mean, there's a reason Dunkirk has gone down as a moment of national pride for Britain. There's a difference between losing less badly than everyone expected and actually doing better than anybody could've ever reasonably expected.

2015 was such a bad loss for Labour in terms of how the votes went in marginals that Labour essentially lost two general elections in one night to begin with. That was even before factoring in as bad a handicap as starting the 2017 election campaign twenty points behind. The scale of the progress Labour made in the polls over that election campaign was literally unprecedented.

While obviously that was partly thanks to Theresa May making the worst strategic manifesto decision in modern history with the dementia tax, a simple 'it's cos Theresa was shit' or 'it's cos the public split into Remain vs Leave' reading has to ignore that a. Labour's main jump in the polls during that campaign came after the (avowedly left-wing and not avowedly Remain) Labour manifesto launch, and b. that Labour held onto a *lot* of Leave voters and Leave seats, and enough by a very narrow margin to deny Theresa May a majority.

It's very easy to see how any other Labour leader that had taken a more vocal Remain line would have lost seats like Newcastle-under-Lyme and Stockton South. That Labour managed to have its cake and eat it by essentially being 'the Remain choice' as well as holding on to so many Leave voters was a hell of a feat, and I can't really think of any alternatives to Jeremy Corbyn that would've made the strategic decisions that led to that, or been able to credibly pull off that kind of constructive ambiguity on Brexit at all.
 
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I hope he comes back. He could get a touch defensive RE: Corbyn but I enjoyed debating with him, and he was invaluable support as a mod/admin generally.
 
I'm flattered that people enjoy what I have to say, but I'm pretty actively trying to scale back on being online.

Every time I read some dire Comment Is Free article or catch up on the latest hot news about Madame X, I can feel my brain disintegrating into a congealed red pulp like they found in that Egyptian sarcophagus, so I decided to take some inspiration from those fucking stupid articles, "digitally detox" (:manson:) and get offline for a while.

Moopy is/was a large part of my online time so it felt sensible to cut back on that first and focus on the real world, where I recently accepted a new job as a key part of Michael Gove's Tory leadership campaign.

I'm going to stand down as an admin/mod and let someone else open the lament configuration :peace:
 
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