The Israel-Gaza War

ButterTart

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Following a request from posters in the original Israel-Gaza topic, the modmin team have decided to create a new thread to continue the discussion. The original thread will still be viewable but is no longer open to new posts.

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With great power comes great responsibility

Anyhow, back to the endless murder of Palestinians
 
Anyway my favorite piece of propaganda from the last 2 days

 
More than anything, I would just like a thread where we can bear witness to the immense suffering that is being waged against the Palestinian people, using weapons funded by our taxes. I don’t want to get into fights or political discussions about who did what to whom and who is right and who is wrong. I just want to bear witness.
 
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I'm finding it hard to know which news source has the most validity. I've been getting a lot from Al Jazeera but keen for recommendations.

It's all so horribly and blatantly corrupt.
 
The families of the hostages have been so brave throughout this, many speaking out in favour of a ceasefire and humanitarian solutions, and they've been absolutely demonised by the right wing of Israeli politics and media - it's shameful :(
 
Rowan Tree 🌳 said:
I'm finding it hard to know which news source has the most validity. I've been getting a lot from Al Jazeera but keen for recommendations.

It's all so horribly and blatantly corrupt.
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Al Jazeera is/was the only news agency with reporters inside Gaza, so even though I found a lot of the images they’ve shown too difficult to watch, I’ve given it a little more credence than the Western channels who didn’t go in, choosing instead to go on IOF led tours and repeating IOF propaganda points. Follow me on Twitter - I’m trying to read whatever I can find from people I trust on there.
 
COB said:
The families of the hostages have been so brave throughout this, many speaking out in favour of a ceasefire and humanitarian solutions, and they've been absolutely demonised by the right wing of Israeli politics and media - it's shameful :(
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They are a light in all this. I’m finding their ‘everyone for everyone’ call for hostage exchanges so moving and powerful. Yes, there are 200+ Hamas hostages, but over 10,000 Palestinians unfairly detained by Israeli forces. The cruelty, whomever it is by, has to stop.
 
Something we could all do in the UK atm is write to our MP and pressure them to vote for ceasefire when it is brought to Parliament on Wednesday.
 
The crackdown on protestors and anti Israeli statements in Europe is also getting scary. Just 2 recent examples



 
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I saw a swastika grafitied onto a doorstep on my way to the GP today.

People are fucking dreadful.
 
And another thread showing how most of our governments understand that Israel is deliberately inflicting as much chaos, death and suffering as possible:

 
COB said:
The families of the hostages have been so brave throughout this, many speaking out in favour of a ceasefire and humanitarian solutions, and they've been absolutely demonised by the right wing of Israeli politics and media - it's shameful :(
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I appreciated this
 
Some things we could maybe think about:

- a lot of Israeli and Western leaders (eg even Grant Schapps) are using the bombing of Dresden or Hiroshima and Nagasaki as parallel justifications for the bombing of Gaza, but these things were war crimes. International law was developed as a mechanism to prevent the scale of wanton destruction that these attacks wreaked on those places.

- Al-Shifa Hospital was precisely attacked because it was the hospital responsible for identifying and recording the civilian casualties in Gaza. Since the bombing of the hospital, casualty figures have not been updated for three consecutive days. The numbers and images that have come out of Gaza have horrified so many of us into action. That is what Israel is trying to stop.

- On the subject of figures, whilst the US has poured doubt on the numbers coming out of Gaza, and western journalists taken to discussing the ‘Hamas-controlled’ ministry of Health, US department of state cables have relied on the figures from this ministry for YEARS. Israeli tv is using the same statistics. One Israeli source even suggested that the death toll could be twice what is coming from Gaza.
 
I’m consistently torn between ignoring this thread for the sake of my mental health and forcing myself to stay educated on how horrible and infuriating it is. Besides, my stress of reading about it is nothing compared to the people experiencing it.

The propaganda though. I’ve never seen such depths of desperation. Imagine seeing this unfold and your instinct is to put all your energy into defending the Israeli government by any means necessary.
 
Beverley said:
- Al-Shifa Hospital was precisely attacked because it was the hospital responsible for identifying and recording the civilian casualties in Gaza. Since the bombing of the hospital, casualty figures have not been updated for three consecutive days. The numbers and images that have come out of Gaza have horrified so many of us into action. That is what Israel is trying to stop.
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according to Amnesty, al-Shifa hospital has been used by Hamas as a base to torture and murder Palestinians for over a decade.


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That's terrible, but it's also the largest hospital in Gaza and now it's been rendered all but useless which will lead to even more death.
 
joanne said:
according to Amnesty, al-Shifa hospital has been used by Hamas as a base to torture and murder Palestinians for over a decade.


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Yup I’ve seen that, but it doesn’t disqualify what I’ve said. Nor does just it justify the bombardment or ground operation that is currently going through.

It’s worth noting that Israel have had control of Al-Shifa for the last 18+ hours and still haven’t produced evidence to justify their actions. On the contrary, it’s quite convenient that when it was time for them to takeover the hospital, the White House suddenly produced intelligence claiming the Hamas command centre was in the tunnels - the only underground area beneath the hospital, allegedly, is one that Israel produced when it controlled Gaza in the 80s.
 
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And it seems that what Amnesty is saying is quite different to Israel’s claims (a disused outpatient unit used to torture vs underground tunnels being the command centre), no?
 
Beverley said:
Yup I’ve seen that, but it doesn’t disqualify what I’ve said. Nor does just it justify the bombardment or ground operation that is currently going through.
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i didn't claim it justifies the bombardment. but to say that Israel bombed the hospital "because it was the hospital responsible for identifying and recording the civilian casualties" is quite misleading since Israel has been transparent about their intent of bombing all Hamas bases since the war began. Al-Shifa hospital is a target because it's a Hamas base, not because Israelis are trying to manipulate numbers like you implied.
 
joanne said:
i didn't claim it justifies the bombardment. but to say that Israel bombed the hospital "because it was the hospital responsible for identifying and recording the civilian casualties" is quite misleading since Israel has been transparent about their intent of bombing all Hamas bases since the war began. Al-Shifa hospital is a target because it's a Hamas base, not because Israelis are trying to manipulate numbers like you implied.
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Debating this is a distraction for me, so I don’t want to, but allow me to restate that there is a reason why western sources have poured doubt on the numbers coming out of Gaza, and there is a reason why we are no longer getting those numbers anymore. If you think the Israeli government is not interested in the PR aspect of this conflict, so be it, but that is my assessment, and the assessment of countless more experienced figures.
 
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