UK: The Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson years - problematic + infected + broke the law + electoral poison + sneks + not very good + OVER (funny)

It doesn't take much brainpower to find it. Perhaps more than you applied during the leadership election he won.
 
To be fair to Jark, it's not unreasonable to have given him a chance. And he did offer something promising, but sadly with so much terrible baggage, which has been revealed in all it's inglorious horror over the last few years.

Mind you I don't really remember how I felt about him at the point of the leadership election, I've changed my mind about him so often.
 
Penelope said:
Oh fucking HARK ON when we were having these conversations four years ago and none of you lot GAVE A SHIT ABOUT THIS!
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Yes well unlike Corbyn himself, I'm happy to admit when I've got something terribly, terribly wrong.
 
Penelope said:
It doesn't take much brainpower to find it. Perhaps more than you applied during the leadership election he won.
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I mean, I don't consider myself much different to the millions of others who once considered him a potential agent of change before he revealed his preferred method of leadership to be locking himself away from anybody and everybody with an opinion different to his own and letting his party crumble around him for the sake of his mysterious principles, and we all lost hope.

Forgive me for being excited about the prospect of an opposition party who could actually energise a disillusioned electorate. That was nice during the few months it lasted.
 
...and Boz employing the deliberate war-time negative usage of "collaborators" without understanding the level of collaboration needed to secure trade deals. Fucking tosser.
 
big ron said:
Corbyn still doing nothing I see.
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You mean bleating on about a caretaker government and being roundly rejected on all sides while Labour continue to trail the Conservatives in the polls?

GREAT WORK!
 
The Government of National Unity idea is unworkable anyway, even if it was led by Yvette Cooper or the EU Supergirl or whoever. It's like it was invented for free content during the recess.

I did find Caroline Lucas accidentally modelling her version on South Africa in the 1980s quite funny but it's all a load of bollocks.
 
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I believe the only round rejection was by the Lib Dems, whose leader refused to say whether No Deal would be worse than a Corbyn-led government. Sounds like they should stop playing politics and be more pragmatic!

 
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Wasn't it the Lib Dems who proposed a caretaker government solution first though, only for Corbyn to dismiss it out of hand just as rapidly?

Thing is, it's 100% never going to fly with Corbyn at the helm, because he's toxic to the vast majority of the opposition and a significant faction of his own party. That has been made clear. If he was truly committed to stopping No Deal, this is a perfect opportunity to show some good faith and agree to letting a trusted middle man take the helm temporarily. He'd still be heading the Labour party going into the subsequent election he wants so badly. So why not give it a chance, unless of course the truth is he's a pig-headed despot who places his own personal power above the good of the country? :side-eye:
 
VoR said:
Wasn't it the Lib Dems who proposed a caretaker government solution first though, only for Corbyn to dismiss it out of hand just as rapidly?

Thing is, it's 100% never going to fly with Corbyn at the helm, because he's toxic to the vast majority of the opposition and a significant faction of his own party. That has been made clear. If he was truly committed to stopping No Deal, this is a perfect opportunity to show some good faith and agree to letting a trusted middle man take the helm temporarily. He'd still be heading the Labour party going into the subsequent election he wants so badly. So why not give it a chance, unless of course the truth is he's a pig-headed despot who places his own personal power above the good of the country? :side-eye:
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The 5 or so Tory MPs that he’s trying to peel away are the absolute maximum of people any Labour leader would win over.

The Philip Hammond and Rory Stewart faction have said they would never vote down their own government, even for a unity coalition, so firstly let’s dispel this suggestion that there is someone else in the Labour ranks who would enable that.

Personally, I don’t think this idea is going to work and there should be a General Election instead, but it’s ridiculous that a party with 13 MPs thinks they can call the shots on stopping No Deal.

Regardless of whether you think Corbyn is a secret Brexiteer, he’s been very clearly opposed to No Deal, which is what this idea is supposed to prevent. It’s arrogant and childish on Jo Swinson’s part and I can’t wait until the SNP win her seat.
 
Mugatu said:
The 5 or so Tory MPs that he’s trying to peel away are the absolute maximum of people any Labour leader would win over.
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Swinson's just said she'd work with Harriet Harmon as an interim leader.

“There is no way he can unite rebel Conservatives and independents to stop Boris Johnson. It’s not even certain he could secure all the votes of Labour MPs. This isn’t about personalities, this is about having a plan that actually works.”

Instead, she said, the temporary PM should be “a long-serving member of parliament who is respected on both sides of the house”, naming Clarke and Harman, who have respectively spent 49 and 37 years in the Commons.

Both would “not seek to lead a government in the long term”, Swinson said, and could thus be trusted.
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VoR said:
Swinson's just said she'd work with Harriet Harmon as an interim leader.
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So what? I still think it's absurd for the leader of a minor party to make stopping an incredibly damaging situation contingent on the Leader of the Opposition being removed from his post. It defies all convention.

Corbyn said in his letter to the other parties that he would also act as an interim leader and call a general election. Harman has said her preference is for him to lead a unity government. This is Swinson's personal choice and she should stop pretending otherwise, it's very transparent.

Suggesting Ken Clarke is even more unworkable. There are 228 MPs bound to vote for Corbyn or lose the whip. Why make it harder for yourself to get the numbers?
 
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I agree with Mugatu that any sort of unity government isn't going to work because no-one trusts each other enough to actually do it. Any sort of confidence vote without an unworkable unity government won't stop No Deal because Boris can schedule the election for after 31 October and let us leave the EU in the meantime. For me, the only way that Parliament can stop No Deal is to take control of government business and vote to revoke Article 50, which they won't do because too many MPs are still giving lip service to respecting the referendum result.

Boris knows that we are leaving without a deal and has already moved onto Operation Blame-Someone-Who-Isn't-Me-For-This, to be followed by a General Election as soon as he's confident that he can win one.
 
But he's not being removed from his post? He's being asked to temporarily step aside to help avert a crisis, after which he gets exactly what he wants, a clean run at a general election with him at the helm.

I'm not a particular Jo Swinson fan, but it seems like a reasonable suggestion for a path forwards. You said yourself that the two-party political system is on the outs, so the idea that the leader of a major player is getting too uppity by making this suggestion is a bit daft. Of course Corbyn isn't bound to her whims, but clearly compromise has to come from somewhere, and I think she's absolutely right to recognise that no unity government is ever likely to be achieved under Corbyn, because too many MPs across the board simply will not countenance working under him specifically.

It might not be workable in any form, of course. But you can either have the conversation and see if something can be done, or you can throw your hands up and give the playing cards back to Boris. I know what I'd prefer.
 
VoR said:
But he's not being removed from his post? He's being asked to temporarily step aside to help avert a crisis, after which he gets exactly what he wants, a clean run at a general election with him at the helm.

I'm not a particular Jo Swinson fan, but it seems like a reasonable suggestion for a path forwards. You said yourself that the two-party political system is on the outs, so the idea that the leader of a major player is getting too uppity by making this suggestion is a bit daft. Of course Corbyn isn't bound to her whims, but clearly compromise has to come from somewhere, and I think she's absolutely right to recognise that no unity government is ever likely to be achieved under Corbyn, because too many MPs across the board simply will not countenance working under him specifically.

It might not be workable in any form, of course. But you can either have the conversation and see if something can be done, or you can throw your hands up and give the playing cards back to Boris. I know what I'd prefer.
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If the Government falls, then it’s the role of the Leader of the Opposition to form an alternative. It’s not the job of a backbencher, or the leader of Parliament’s fourth largest party for that matter.

If Corbyn is unable to bring down the government, then I don’t think anyone else is going to be. It’s nothing to do with my personal support for him, it’s again a question of parliamentary numbers. This article sums that up quite well.

The potential Tory rebels, the SNP, Plaid Cymru and Caroline Lucas all seem willing to get in the room with him, at least. The conversation is being had, with or without the Lib Dems.
 
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VoR said:
Wasn't it the Lib Dems who proposed a caretaker government solution first though, only for Corbyn to dismiss it out of hand just as rapidly?

Thing is, it's 100% never going to fly with Corbyn at the helm, because he's toxic to the vast majority of the opposition and a significant faction of his own party. That has been made clear. If he was truly committed to stopping No Deal, this is a perfect opportunity to show some good faith and agree to letting a trusted middle man take the helm temporarily. He'd still be heading the Labour party going into the subsequent election he wants so badly. So why not give it a chance, unless of course the truth is he's a pig-headed despot who places his own personal power above the good of the country? :side-eye:
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Do you want to be any more contradictory? A couple of weeks ago you were bemoaning Corbyn's apparent lack of willing to do anything and now you're criticising him for taking a strong and logical course of action? Regardless of who steps in as a time limited interim PM as the leader of the opposition its his job to challenge Johnson and thats what he's doing. I'd be surprised if it is him, but he's putting the wheels in motion AND has the ability to stop no deal, call a GE and put Brexit to another vote, he's trying to do all of those things and yet here you are moaning.

Your posts read like a Mail article.
 
big ron said:
Do you want to be any more contradictory? A couple of weeks ago you were bemoaning Corbyn's apparent lack of willing to do anything and now you're criticising him for taking a strong and logical course of action? Regardless of who steps in as a time limited interim PM as the leader of the opposition its his job to challenge Johnson and thats what he's doing. I'd be surprised if it is him, but he's putting the wheels in motion AND has the ability to stop no deal, call a GE and put Brexit to another vote, he's trying to do all of those things and yet here you are moaning.

Your posts read like a Mail article.
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I don't think it's contradictory at all. Putting a caretaker government proposal on the line is a sensible move, but only if it has a possibility to succeed. Otherwise it's just posturing. And unless you seriously think the rebel Tories are going to unite around him when he can't even unite his own party, it doesn't. Hence I wish the idea of exploring other leaders could be given a bit of credence. He doesn't have to roll over and give it to Harriet Harmon or Ken Clarke, obviously. That's a starting point.

Right now he's gotten maybe halfway to a position that could potentially deliver something concrete, and we have less than six weeks to go. Forgive me for not falling to my knees and repenting my lack of faith.
 
VoR: CORBYN YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING TO STOP BREXIT

Corbyn: "Having done fuck all for 2 years I've formulated a plan! I'll call a no confidence vote in Boris, ask for an extension of Article 50, then I'll briefly govern to prevent us crashing out, for an agreed specified time, in a caretaker only role with the guarantee of General Election at the end of it. This will literally give you everything you're pretending to want"

VoR: YEAH NOT THAT

(I stole this)
 
Anyway to reiterate, I'm not opposed to the idea. I wouldn't even be opposed to him being the one to lead a caretaker government - IF IT WERE POSSIBLE.

But it quite clearly isn't. So we come to what I see as a test of his principles. Will he torpedo the whole thing by refusing to let anyone else take the reigns - temporarily with a virtual guarantee that he gets his precious general election shortly afterwards - or will he actually show some political conviction and steal a march on Johnson?
 
VoR said:
Anyway to reiterate, I'm not opposed to the idea. I wouldn't even be opposed to him being the one to lead a caretaker government - IF IT WERE POSSIBLE.

But it quite clearly isn't. So we come to what I see as a test of his principles. Will he torpedo the whole thing by refusing to let anyone else take the reigns - temporarily with a virtual guarantee that he gets his precious general election shortly afterwards - or will he actually show some political conviction and steal a march on Johnson?
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I've picked up on your subtle vibes that you think he could pull something like this off, but surely he wouldn't? If a cross party group agrees to a neutral interim leader he'd have to support it seeing as he's pushing the whole thing as his idea?
 
Not the Lib Dems fucking over the last shot at their alleged only policy because it gets in the way of their actual only policy (free blow jobs for Tories).
 
I see another Tory MP has gone to the Lib Dems, surely he doesn’t have a working majority now??
 
Oh no sorry, she (Sarah Wollaston) went to Tories to Change UK and now to Lib Dems so won’t make a difference to the majority. Bugger.
 
She had previously lobbied for MPs who change party to face automatic by-election. That shouldn't apply to herself though, obviously.
 
Ag said:
So Boris wants to build a bridge between NI and Scotland (!)
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The DUP have been using this as a ridiculous campaign pledge for the last few elections so that will keep them happy for a bit (although presumably not enough for them to vote for whatever reheated version of the withdrawal agreement he brings back).
 
You do all know the reason why said bridge can't be built, aye? Due to the arms cache that was dumped in the sea. And will blow up. Still, minor details.

And given his record with bridges, Boris can fuck off.
 
They were bombs dumped off of our boats for whatever reason.

They encountered the same problem when building the Øresund bridge and it added a few billion to the budget. Of course, that bridge is a fraction of the length, built in a fraction of the depth and is over a calm stretch of water.
 
He's really keeping the Tories high in the polls. I hope someone dethrones him. I would be happy for Ken Clarke to take over for a bit.
 
Christian said:
Ken Clarke has totally earned a stint as PM. I’d love to see it.
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Sneaking in right at the end of his career as perhaps one of about 2 bearable Tories would be amazing.

National Unity Government PLEASE.
 
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