GinAg (39)
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There are various UK elections coming up. Who would you vote for in a GE tomorrow?
Who would you vote for in a General Election tomorrow 2021?
- Thread starter GinAg (39)
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ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
Green so they get their deposit back. SNP if in a seat where their victory isn't guaranteed.
Replace SNP with Labour if I'm silly enough to move to England again.
Replace SNP with Labour if I'm silly enough to move to England again.
GinAg (39)
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Green for me. Labour are dead to me. Obviously if its a close poll where Labour could beat Tories I'd think on.
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Kate
mildly communist
Through gritted teeth, Labour, because I like my MP.
Tetris-Rock
one of those "they/thems"
Uuuuuuuuuuuuugh.
Indie
Adminisistrater
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
The woman who wanted the Lib Dems to be a 'radical left' alternative to Labour but supports her local NIMBYs blocking any new housing developments in Oxford pretty much every time?
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
Labour. The entire point is he's doing the centrist vibe so he can try and get something like the 2017 manifesto plus the 2019 manifesto's best bits (Green New Deal, gigafactories) through while still seeming reassuring to the sorts of people who turned away in the red wall. The best thing to do is just ignore most of the press appearances and keep a laser focus on the formal policy stances/next manifesto when it comes.
(don't get me wrong, he could be doing it much better, and his office team has got a lot of work to do and needs a fair bit of improvement between now and the next general election)
(don't get me wrong, he could be doing it much better, and his office team has got a lot of work to do and needs a fair bit of improvement between now and the next general election)
ButterTart
Succulent Chinese meal
Labour are the only party with any chance of ousting the local Tory, so I'm going for them. We're in a position where voting for the party you really support basically hands another win to the Tories.
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
But by constantly ignoring or letting down the base, he's going to lose footsoldiers to actually go door knocking etc for the party. At some point Labour are going to need to change public opinion rather than just follow it ever closer to the Tory position.
dmlaw
Democracy doesn't work
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That really isn't what he's doing. The vast majority of Tory policies are acres away from anything that Labour are proposing. The fact that the Tories occasionally steal a popular Labour policy doesn't make them remotely centrist or a centrist Labour Party 'red Tories'.
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
Isn't he? Look at his recent comments on drug policy and crime. He's following their rhetoric at the very least.
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
Albeit, one of his main problems at the moment is he isn't really doing message discipline at the moment. He's put forward a fair few alternative policies, but because he hasn't been repeating them (an essential part of political messaging) they've basically sunk without trace.
Jury's out if it's a pandemic 'avoiding being seen as too political' thing still or not (we'll know much more in six months time about whether he's up to it or not), but tbh I think we'd have been a bit better off if he'd picked just one alternative policy (e.g. boosting sick pay) and just hammered at that all year.
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
Opposing anti social behaviour? Get out of town.
dmlaw
Democracy doesn't work
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He's a former prosecutor so he's always going to be at least somewhat 'tough on crime'. It's a popular position and there's nothing to be gained by trying to change public opinion here. There's still a huge difference between Starmer's crime position and the poison that someone like Priti Patel spits out.
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
I mean also if people are going to complain about drug policy, they might want to fairly note it's exactly the bloody same as Corbyn's. I'm not especially pleased about that either way, but it's pretty annoying seeing Starmer get stick for stuff that people just assumed Corbyn and Labour under him were good on (despite having the same policy) because after all, wasn't he just perfect?
To that end, Labour's policy on welfare now is *infinitely* better than it was under Corbyn, especially in 2017 (surprising as that may be to hear!)
To that end, Labour's policy on welfare now is *infinitely* better than it was under Corbyn, especially in 2017 (surprising as that may be to hear!)
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
If people are voting for 'tough on crime' what's stopping them just voting for the conservatives then, who have been banging that drum much longer. Labour following their rhetoric and solutions (Tougher sentences etc.) won't get them very far.
Labour have always been woeful on drug policy, but adopting a more distinct alternative could work massively in their favour, especially if they emphasise its potential for increased revenue for spending on other things.
Labour have always been woeful on drug policy, but adopting a more distinct alternative could work massively in their favour, especially if they emphasise its potential for increased revenue for spending on other things.
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
"If people want higher spending, why wouldn't they just vote Labour?" Would be the same argument against the Tories' 2019 platform pledging an end to austerity and higher spending on the NHS/police/education. That was a huge part of what created a permission structure for a lot of red wall voters who had their doubts about the Tories to vote for them. Turned out to work!
Hell, the same tough on crime/'the really bad thing about austerity is police cuts' trick did the same thing for Corbyn's Labour in 2017. It's not about who's toughest, it's 'I like what you've got to say on XYZ, but can I trust you on crime?'.
octophone
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Depends. The SNP Parliamentary party are a disgrace and it's between them and Labour, who can fuck off until they get shot of Morristarmer. Given that I would struggle to endorse the 2 horses, I;d have to go with my conscience and vote Green.
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
They still shouldn't be supporting bad policy. They should be emphasising that restoring public services and reducing poverty, core Labour goals, will bring the crime rate back down again, since it has risen under the Tories, rather than going for an ineffective Tory-lite stance.
Not convinced this will work symmetrically, since ending austerity and spending more on public services is actually good policy. Also, given the joint push and pull factors of hating Corbyn and a simple solution to Brexit, I am not sure how much wider policy platforms were even considered in the last election.
big ron
Chief Super Moderator
At this point my vote would be entirely tactical, so probably still Labour. I’m still not feeling Starmer but I’m reserving judgement until he gets to be a proper politician
Penelope
striking, unique, 𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘦𝘳
Well that's the thing - by taking questions over spending off the table, it got to be a Brexit election, in the same way Corbyn taking up a soft Leave policy stopped 2017 from just being a Brexit election (as May intended those push and pull factors to make it!) and meant he could turn it into more of a spending election.
Also it's very easy to say 'well it works when the Tories do it our way because our way is Good'. What do you think the view over crime policy is likely to be with the voters Labour's lost in most of the seats that have gone Tory?
GinAg (39)
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I'm swear there were about 3 Green voters a few years ago here. Labour have done an astonishing act in shedding voters here.