Israel's participation in Eurovision 2024

Voodoo said:
Because Russia invaded Ukraine, whereas Israel was invaded by Gaza on October 7th.
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Take those lies and propoganda to the other thread where they belong. Israel wasn't invaded because Gaza is not a country and it was not attacked by a government. Learn some basics.
 
Funky said:
Take those lies and propoganda to the other thread where they belong. Israel wasn't invaded because Gaza is not a country and it was not attacked by a government. Learn some basics.
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And even if it was, there are still international laws that apply to warfare that Israel is breaking.
 
Funky said:
Yes seriously. Sorry if you can't wrap your head around the basic arguments of why the vast majority of the world is against Israel right now.
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Because they have double standards and are antisemitic, perhaps.
 
Voodoo said:
Why? Because she talks sense? :RuGlasses:
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The right wing pundits appeal to people who are desperate to have their bigotted views justified or are just fucking thick.

I don't hear a fucking word of sense just tired old recycled nasty right wing lies.
 
Voodoo said:
Because they have double standards and are antisemitic, perhaps.
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Absolute shite. The antisemitic argument in this case is such a tired and weak trope. Was it antisemitism that gave us 50 years of massively pro-Israeli narrative across Western media? Was it antisemitism that caused the US to veto UN sanctions multiple times while innocent palestinian children burnt alive?

Take that shit somewhere else. Antisemitism is a major issue, but it is NOT what is driving the sentiment towards the IDF being abhorrent, murderous cunts.
 
Voodoo said:
Are you still disputing the fact that antisemitism is a very real thing?
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No, just that most of us against Israel's behaviour don't have an antisemitic bone in our bodies. There are of course exceptions to every rule, that you seem to dwell on.
 
Funky said:
So massively prejudicial then. Got it.
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Russia is an authoritarian state, all of its media outlets are part of its regime propaganda.* (and it invaded another EBU member)

*now this could partly be said about Israel too, but it’s still not the same.
 
It takes a special kind of stupid to be unable to separate antisemitism from anti-killing innocent civilians. In most cases the people spouting it aren't stupid, they're just so deep in their own narrative that they have no choice but to double down. It's SAD.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
Russia is an authoritarian state, all of its media outlets are part of its regime propaganda.* (and it invaded another EBU member)

*now this could partly be said about Israel too, but it’s still not the same.
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To be fair Israel isn't anywhere as repressive to their own dissidents as Russia. Just other people.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
Russia is an authoritarian state, all of its media outlets are part of its regime propaganda.* (and it invaded another EBU member)

*now this could partly be said about Israel too, but it’s still not the same.
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Acts of War are never the same. I was just referring to the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians including children. I would hope the reasons that countries are banned from major competitions are because of the unnecessary loss of life in acts of war, not because of semantics.
 
Anyway back to square one, not to derail the thread - the Israeli government can fuck off and Eurovision can fuck off too for ignoring this horrendous war crime. Probably easier for me to say because I'm not a fan. I participated a lot last year for obvious reasons but I won't be watching this year.
 
Such a relief to see non-Jewish people declare that there isn't any anti-semitism once again
 
Funky said:
Anyway back to square one, not to derail the thread - the Israeli government can fuck off and Eurovision can fuck off too for ignoring this horrendous war crime. Probably easier for me to say because I'm not a fan. I participated a lot last year for obvious reasons but I won't be watching this year.
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That’s fine and obviously we all have to make the decisions that we can live with, but at the risk of being pedantic I’d be wary of calling out ’Eurovision’ as if it’s an autonomous body of producers deciding whether or not to give Israel this platform.

The EBU covers virtually all live television rights in its member broadcasters. International sports, news etc. Eurovision is a high profile but ultimately tiny part of a much larger picture. As far as the individuals who organise ’Eurovision’ are concerned, their hands are pretty much tied until the governments of a majority of member states call for Russia-level sanctions against the state of Israel.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
But I don’t recall any of you wanting the UK out of Eurovision during the war in Iraq?
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We were fed propoganda during the Iraq war and even then the vast majority of the country disagreed with it. Most of us were too young to understand what was going on but yes there would be grounds for UK being removed after the fact once it was revealed that there was no WMDs.

Even then though, the UK and the US didn't carpet bomb entire villages to get to Saddam Hussein.
 
Funky said:
It takes a special kind of stupid to be unable to separate antisemitism from anti-killing innocent civilians. In most cases the people spouting it aren't stupid, they're just so deep in their own narrative that they have no choice but to double down. It's SAD.
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What is SAD is that you cannot make one post without calling names and using insults, which means your arguements must be WEAK.
 
Funky said:
I participated a lot last year for obvious reasons but I won't be watching this year.
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Sarcastic Oh No GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
Voodoo said:
What is SAD is that you cannot make one post without calling names and using insults, which means your arguements must be WEAK.
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Feel free to point out the weaknesses in my argument, as I've said many times I am ALL EARS on understanding why Israel would ignore the world and kill thousands of innocent people.

Just saying that it must be weak is, a bit, WEAK.
 
Funky said:
We were fed propoganda during the Iraq war and even then the vast majority of the country disagreed with it. Most of us were too young to understand what was going on but yes there would be grounds for UK being removed after the fact once it was revealed that there was no WMDs.

Even then though, the UK and the US didn't carpet bomb entire villages to get to Saddam Hussein.
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Last time I checked, Iraq didn't invade the UK and didn't kill over 1200 British people. Did it?
 
No one here supported the UK invasion of Iraq! I activitely protested against it.

Besides that happened in the pre-social/ cancellation age. So WEAK argument.
 
Most of you were teenagers or younger when that war happened. But HOW DARE YOU not turn off Eurovision because the UK were in it!

What DOUBLE STANDARDS!
 
Funky said:
Most of you were teenagers or younger when that war happened. But HOW DARE YOU not turn off Eurovision because the UK were in it!

What DOUBLE STANDARDS!
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Hate to say it, but we got old.
 
Funky said:
I haven't once seen anyone in this thread say there isn't any anti semitism.
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GinAg (39) said:
Who said that?
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I am having a hard time putting this into words, so apologies if it doesn't make any sense:

A long history of anti-semitism is why Israel was created, and in my opinion, the reason that Israelis and also many other generally liberal Jewish people feel so defensive about Israel. The view that "the world only cares when Jews do it, not when it happens to us" is the context of why supporters of Israel don't care about the world's reaction. Its easy to say that anti-Zionism isn't connected to anti-Semitism, but when you look at the reactions and protests, I just don't think that is true. Statements like this downplay anti-semitism in my opinion:
GinAg (39) said:
No, just that most of us against Israel's behaviour don't have an antisemitic bone in our bodies. There are of course exceptions to every rule, that you seem to dwell on.
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I don't think that you specifically, or any other regular Moopy posters, are anti-semitic, but this is like a straight person saying they don't have a homophobic bone in their body, which I don't buy either.

None of this is to justify Israel's actions, but there are other nation's that do horrible things, and the idea that Israel is uniquely evil in the world partially stems from anti-semitism.

I'm sure every gay person can relate to the feeling of knowing that homophobia is involved in ways that can't be put into words, and that is the same feeling that I get from statements in this thread and on the internet and especially when phrases like "the anti-Semitism lie" are used
 
Voodoo said:
www.theguardian.com

How many Iraqis were killed or abused by British soldiers? We may never know

Law firm faces disciplinary tribunal as ministers cry foul.
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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As has already been said, most of the UK did not support the war even from the start, for this reason.

But since we're having to have this discussion in 2024, and I hate being made to DEFEND the UK on this issue, but it was never their intention to OCCUPY Iraqi land. Their strategy to install a new government was BEYOND flawed, but they didn't invade because of some preconceived ideology that they owned the land. That is why people hate Putin, and it's why people hate Netenyahu.

Tell me, is Netenyahu planning on giving Gaza back to the Palestianians once he's finished bombing it?

 
RJN said:
I am having a hard time putting this into words, so apologies if it doesn't make any sense:

A long history of anti-semitism is why Israel was created, and in my opinion, the reason that Israelis and also many other generally liberal Jewish people feel so defensive about Israel. The view that "the world only cares when Jews do it, not when it happens to us" is the context of why supporters of Israel don't care about the world's reaction. Its easy to say that anti-Zionism isn't connected to anti-Semitism, but when you look at the reactions and protests, I just don't think that is true. Statements like this downplay anti-semitism in my opinion:

I don't think that you specifically, or any other regular Moopy posters, are anti-semitic, but this is like a straight person saying they don't have a homophobic bone in their body, which I don't buy either.

None of this is to justify Israel's actions, but there are other nation's that do horrible things, and the idea that Israel is uniquely evil in the world partially stems from anti-semitism.

I'm sure every gay person can relate to the feeling of knowing that homophobia is involved in ways that can't be put into words, and that is the same feeling that I get from statements in this thread and on the internet and especially when phrases like "the anti-Semitism lie" are used
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Israel are far from uniquely evil. They (the IDF to be clear) just happen to be evil right now. We can't ignore it just because other countries have done it before.

A lot of people are leveraging this war to stir anti-semitism and to justify anti-semitism, that is obviously true. I feel DEEPLY for my Jewish friends right now. What I object to is the black and white argument made by many people (not you) that the reason most people aren't supporting Israel in their cause is because of anti-semitism. That is the only thing I object to when it comes to anti-semitism - in every other case it should be heard and acknowledged. But in this case people are using it as a detraction for mass murder. That is what infuriates me. "Oh you don't like Netenyahu bombing hospitals? It's because you're anti-semitic". A big hard NOPE to that.
 
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