Leaving Neverland

Well I did my bit and deleted all his music. I will be disposing off his CDs to boot.
 
I'm not sure if I want to watch it, but kind of feel as if I ought to.

I'm reluctant to dip my toe into the pool of defenders, but are they offering up any sort of coherent defence?
 
I see he re-entered the iTunes Top 100 artists yesterday. No such thing as bad publicity and all that...
 
lolly said:
I'm not sure if I want to watch it, but kind of feel as if I ought to.

I'm reluctant to dip my toe into the pool of defenders, but are they offering up any sort of coherent defence?
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I haven’t watched either yet, I’ve recorded it to come back to, possibly maybe. I’ve seen plenty of comments, pieces of information online which suggests the two boys/men in this have several dubious traits but of course I’m not in a position to judge either way.
 
BoysForSeles said:
I haven’t watched either yet, I’ve recorded it to come back to, possibly maybe. I’ve seen plenty of comments, pieces of information online which suggests the two boys/men in this have several dubious traits but of course I’m not in a position to judge either way.
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Oh I'm sure they took money back in the day, but who wouldn't take a few million to keep quiet, rather than submit to being probed about your high profile sexual abuse. Watch it and you'll understand. Also MJ fans will do anything to discredit them.
 
lolly said:
I'm reluctant to dip my toe into the pool of defenders, but are they offering up any sort of coherent defence?
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The usual - but uttered in a borderline hysterical manner - he was an innocent who loved children, who was reliving his own lost youth, and all the accusers are lying, stealing thrash.
That it was the insurance company that made him make the payoff. That 9/11 was the reason for the Jancellation of Janet's European tour.
 
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I found Wade Robson's stuff to feel a little more rehearsed...which is perhaps normal because he's much more prominent than James Safechuck. But I definitely can see why his testimony seems more problematic.

It was interesting seeing how much archive material they had - and Michael Jackson's behaviour towards kids was inappropriate, regardless of anything else that did or didn't happen.

Besides anything else, what really transpired was how desperately lonely Michael Jackson was. I'm glad they said what he did never felt aggressive or forceful, because however inappropriate his behaviour came across (even that seen in public), it genuinely seems to have come from some weird fucked up place where he genuinely loved those kids. That's not to defend it or justify it, but it does feel more consistent with what we saw of him.
 
It really doesn’t matter if it came from loneliness or if it was not aggressive. He used his position and stardom to take 7 year olds and make them fall in love with him and then he abused them sexually.

It doesn’t really matter that they took money and benefited from it (which both are quite honest about in the documentary). They were groomed by him for years and it takes years to break from something like that.
 
It might not be hostile, but with young children it's pretty much aggressive by definition, isn't it?
 
I think it’s the way they spoke during the documentary that he was always tender....it’s just really skeevy
 
Phoenix said:
I think it’s the way they spoke during the documentary that he was always tender....it’s just really skeevy
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Yeah I think that's it.

Abuse is abuse, it's not like there are "better" types of abuse than others when it comes to this. But I guess compared to what we've heard of some pop paedophiles (i.e. Ian Watkins), what happened here sounds much less physically aggressive or intended to cause physical trauma. That's not to say these guys aren't deeply affected by it - certainly the emotional impact of the way he replaced them so quickly seems to have had much more impact.

I still can't bring myself to say he sounds evil. And nor do they - it's surprising how much the families are still able to talk quite rationally about him.
 
Ag said:
I hadn't realised Wade Robson was famous in his own right.
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I only remembered him when they spoke of *NSYNC and that he was the stand in for JT for the Bye Bye Bye video.
 
Commotion said:
The Jacko fans defence seems to be that he was a Neneh Cherry loving man-child, reliving the childhood he never had, who because he was rich and famous was being extorted by devious children.

Conveniently ignoring that this man who supposedly loved all children, had intense friendships with ONLY boys that ended soon after the boys reached puberty when they were replaced. Whose home was designed to be appealing to children.Who slept in beds alone with these boys. Who was inappropriately tactile with them, as many photos show. Who lavished them and their families with money and gifts. Who had porn and alcohol openly lying around in areas frequented by children. Who has been accused by several boys of abuse and paid them off.

I wonder.
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Exactly. His fans are honing in on how one-sided the documentary is. Yes it is, and taken in isolation the two testimonies on their own maybe don’t stand up to much, but that’s being wilfully ignorant of the wider context which is all that’s been mentioned above.

What the documentary did do very well was remind us of all of that which we already knew and has been well documented - that he was a deeply disturbed individual.

I don’t necessarily always believe that there’s no smoke without fire, but the smoke in this case is BILLOWING.
 
I just find the mental gymnastics people do to excuse him totally insane and ridiculous.

I don't know if it's the Me Too backlash or braindead fandom but it reminds me of a couple years before Jimmy Savile was revealed as a massive nonce, where it's really circumstantially obvious but people don't want their childhood or their favourite celebrity ruined.

I know I'm cynical but I can't imagine saying that a middle-aged billionaire who groomed young boys to be his best friend and sleep with him in his bed actually DIDN'T have any ulterior motives, like maybe trying to fuck those kids.
 
Without seeing part 2 yet, I do wonder whether anyone more senior in the Jackson empire saw this happening, tried to report it and was silenced. Because that's where the stuff around Jimmy Saville became absolutely damning - not just the testimonies from those it happened to, but those that tried to raise the alarm.

I feel for Wade Robson and James Safechuck in the sense that in their current situation, it's always going to end up as their word versus his. And it very much sounds like MJ orchestrated it himself - whereas other examples of abuse have been more institutionalised and there were larger numbers of people eventually able to speak out about it - even if it hadn't happened directly to them.
 
I assume @Ellie has given up defending him on here. I imagine if were to comment it would the normal critiques of the accusers, however has she even watched it?
 
Ag said:
I assume @Ellie has given up defending him on here. I imagine if were to comment it would the normal critiques of the accusers, however has she even watched it?
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We could’ve asked Mel but vile bullies made her swing off on her trapeze.
 
I don’t know why but I was surprised to see Oprah Winfrey is basically behind this documentary. I also thought she was retired.
 
BoysForSeles said:
I don’t know why but I was surprised to see Oprah Winfrey is basically behind this documentary. I also thought she was retired.
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It’s also strange with Oprah in her ivory tower with her VERY DEAR FRIENDS David Geffen & Harvey Weinstein (who incidentally was subject to a very similar recent film which has been all but buried).

Makes you think.
 
Oprah was once in a film called Beloved.

I can only infer from this that she is on a mission to destroy the careers of all other beloved celebrities to leave herself standing as the most beloved.

READ BETWEEN THE LINES PEOPLE!
 
Well I won’t be able to sleep tonight thinking about that!
 
Didn’t she interview the men from the documentary recently too?
 
There's definitely some massive noncing conspiracy in Hollywood (and here as well, I heard you literally get to pick out a child when you're sworn in as an MP). I wouldn't be surprised if there are a whole load of scandals uncovered in the next few years, once they've stopped giving the perpetrators Oscar nominations.

You have to wonder, what does Rita know? :(

oprah-weinstein-bait.jpg
 
And she only got a role in the Fifty Shades slop for her troubles. :(
 
Ag said:
A lot of diversion tactics in this topic. I smell a conspiracy.
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Oh there IS!

I’m not denying what’s pretty obvious though. Which means it’s finally time to stan the greatest Jackson.

Those maids knew what they were letting themselves in for!
 
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